Results 51 to 59 of 59
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02-20-2019, 07:55 AM #51
Well said. I like where this thread has gone.
The wildfire community has developed a lot of human factors and heuristics training, modeled after military and aviation training in that area. If you want to learn it seems as important to know the thinking behind an incident as it is to know what happened and how.
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02-20-2019, 09:33 AM #52
I definitely do not mean to give the impression that I think discussion is worthless - see the post I quoted (and the previous few) for the context of my remarks. I don't think saying "look at these idiots, crossing an avalanche path, how come people are so stupid?" brings anything to the table. But obviously I agree that mature discussion, particularly when we're being honest with ourselves about our motives and so forth, is very valuable and I also have learned a great deal from these discussions, both in the flesh and here.
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02-20-2019, 11:17 AM #53
2 buried/killed Brush Creek, Crested Butte CO
When I took the old fuac 3 day course, the curriculum included evening discussions, slide presentations, and videos of case studies of mistakes. Analysis was focused on what they did wrong from decisionmaking to rescue. Many of them involved peers of the instructors (ie avi pros and guides). The wasatch was having a really bad year, and the discussion also included events from earlier that winter.
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02-20-2019, 12:10 PM #54
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02-22-2019, 05:23 AM #55Registered User
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02-22-2019, 06:45 AM #56
Sorry to hear this. Vibes
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02-22-2019, 10:08 PM #57
Dang, I got the 3rd edition of Tremper’s “Staying Alive...” the other day, and there’s a chapter at the end called “The Human Factor.” A friend of mine helped him edit that chapter, and coincidentally that guy is visiting me because he’s presenting a segment on human factors to a local patrol avy training session. And where I’m going with this is this passage from that chapter:
...after an accident it’s all too easy to point fingers and lay blame on those who made an error. There are two big reasons not to fall into this trap: First, every one of us makes the same errors, but nothing bad has happened - yet....Second, hindsight is always twenty twenty, because we know the outcome and thus we can clearly trace back through the specific chain of events to identify mistakes...instead of pointing fingers, put yourself in the victim’s shoes and see things from the perspective of someone making complex decisions with often competing goals and multiple focuses. You will soon recognize that every one of us could have made the same decisions - and probably did many times in the past - but everything turned out fine.
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02-23-2019, 02:07 PM #58Registered User
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I didn’t know Owen, but I recognized him in his photo.
The RFV’s lost a lot of friends this season.
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02-23-2019, 06:50 PM #59
On a related note, I'm on my 3rd listening this year of @covert's "Slide" podcast - just finished the situational awareness episodes.
It's a sobering, humbling reminder of how stupid all of us are.
Sent from my LM-G710VM using TapatalkLast edited by galibier_numero_un; 02-24-2019 at 12:40 AM.
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