Skis you HATED.. Recent edition, 2010 or newer.

[ACH]

^^^
This, and...
While the later BG's are more than capable at speed, if you start to compare them with other skis that have metal and rubber in the layup, not to mention a longer effective edge, there is no comparison (relative to firm or groomed snow conditions)...
So, semantics.

[Ted Striker]

it's a 3D ski for 3D snow.

[SumJongGuy]

please,
sumjong is skiing 86 waist carvers, probably on ec manmade. no way he could understand the nature of the pnw snow and the hourly fluctuations in consistency and nature without spending some time on it. BG wasn’t made for protosnow out of a gun, it was made to ski real snow on big mountains.

I've spent more than a few hours skiing Colorado and New Mexico. I was skiing 15" of fresh light cold smoke in PA two weeks ago.. on those 86 waist skis. It's been a few years since I've skied above the tree line in really deep snow, but I get it. How many top World Freeride competitors are skiing their competition runs on BGs?

FWIW, I'd love to try a pair, older or newer... in some good conditions..

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I've spent more than a few hours skiing Colorado and New Mexico. I was skiing 15" of fresh light cold smoke in PA two weeks ago.. on those 86 waist skis. It's been a few years since I've skied above the tree line in really deep snow, but I get it. How many top World Freeride competitors are skiing their competition runs on BGs?

FWIW, I'd love to try a pair, older or newer... in some good conditions..

You're missing the point. Where skis like the BG shine are in mediocre soft snow conditions.

[TahoeJ]

I've spent more than a few hours skiing Colorado and New Mexico. I was skiing 15" of fresh light cold smoke in PA two weeks ago.. on those 86 waist skis. It's been a few years since I've skied above the tree line in really deep snow, but I get it. How many top World Freeride competitors are skiing their competition runs on BGs?

FWIW, I'd love to try a pair, older or newer... in some good conditions..

Stupid post. ON3P doesn’t have the budget. But they did have a guy on tour last year or the year before.

[Ted Striker]

Plus it's not a comp ski. It wasn't designed to be a comp ski.

[SumJongGuy]

Plus it's not a comp ski. It wasn't designed to be a comp ski.

Exactly my point with regard to high speed stability through sketchy conditions. It's a good ski for bad or semi bad snow days. And, it's evolved beyond it's original purpose of slower speed, tight spot and difficult line maneuvering.

I agree that a ski that's better than others in heavy wet snow, leftovers, and crud busting has its place. I definitely pick a different ski for days like that than my daily driver. If that's your average situation than nothing wrong with that being the DD for you.

[altacoup]

You're missing the point. Where skis like the BG shine are in mediocre soft snow conditions.

This. They were the best dust in crust ski I've ever skied by a mile. Great in pow to, but I prefer renegades


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[tenB]

Plus it's not a comp ski. It wasn't designed to be a comp ski.

It’s a bit too wide to be a comp ski.

Has sumjong ever skied a BG, or is he just calling them slow based on his theories?

[SumJongGuy]

It’s a bit too wide to be a comp ski.

Has sumjong ever skied a BG, or is he just calling them slow based on his theories?

Someone else said they didn't like the first iteration of them at speed. I commented that I thought they were designed for tight spot, tricky lines, not high speed cruising. Of course the BG homers all jumped in to tell me how wrong I am about everything. Someone else did say "actually, he's right about the first generation...." And here we are. Spending way too much time discussing skis NOBODY here "hates".

Time to get back on topic..

[TBS]

Has sumjong ever skied a BG, or is he just calling them slow based on his theories?

Someone else said they didn't like the first iteration of them at speed. I commented that I thought they were designed for tight spot, tricky lines, not high speed cruising. Of course the BG homers all jumped in to tell me how wrong I am about everything. Someone else did say "actually, he's right about the first generation...." And here we are. Spending way too much time discussing skis NOBODY here "hates".

Time to get back on topic..

That reads like “no” to me

[SumJongGuy]

That reads like “no” to me

So does this response halfway up the page. Try to keep up Ummkay?

FWIW, I'd love to try a pair, older or newer... in some good conditions..

[cyborg]

This. They were the best dust in crust ski I've ever skied by a mile. Great in pow to, but I prefer renegades


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I'll second this. Being 5'9 160# on the 191 probably helps, and I probably haven't skied as many different skis as many people on here, but the BGs eat up dust on crust, crud, hot pow, etc. My go to "still soft but kinda shitty" resort ski.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[TBS]

So does this response halfway up the page. Try to keep up Ummkay?

Still don’t see a yes or no in all your bloviation on this page. I’ll take your word that it’s buried in all your. bullshit somewhere

So tell us more about skis you’ve never been on, and those gnar conditions in North fucking Carolina

[SumJongGuy]

Still don’t see a yes or no in all your bloviation on this page. I’ll take your word that it’s buried in all your. bullshit somewhere

So tell us more about skis you’ve never been on, and those gnar conditions in North fucking Carolina

Wrong thread Jong..

[TBS]

No really, I want Sum Jong Guy to tell us more about skiing in the maritime snow that spawned ON3P and Praxis.
And tell us all about your experience with deep snow. We've only had 4 feet of blower this week in our little corner of mediocrity.

[SkiGinger]

Anything less than 99 underfoot.

[Afkpuz]

T edious
G oat
R egurgitation

[Self Jupiter]

Salomon lord 185 circa 2011-12. Although it hand flexed stiff, the ski was either not torsionally stiff enough, or too pintailed, because it felt like it held a solid edge until it suddenly decided not to and would immediately wash out. It was pretty terrifying. It was also super ugly

[iggyskier]

Good point. Yeah, I guess it makes sense that there's a big difference between O.G. BG 186 and O.G. BG 191, because there were like 3 years of ON3P evolution between those two skis. O.G. BG 186 was like a 2009 ski, and O.G. BG 191 was not created in that length until 2012.

So, I wonder which one people in this thread are referring to when they say "O.G. BillyGoat sucked". The 186 2009? Or the 191 2012?

.

2010 BG (09/10). First year. That ski was garbage and most certainly a ski that belongs in this thread. If I could put them all in a container and sink it to the bottom of the ocean, I would (sorry ocean).

Talking about BGs before the 2013 RES model is apples to oranges. The platform is fundamentally different. The 2012 191cm is...close (176/186 were older design), but was sort of like comparing a rotary telephone to an iPhone.

Not denying it is a blind assumption, simply based on the name of the model.

...........

But in the photo quoted below, the curvature at the widest point of the tip is WAY more gradual than the "sharp corner" at the widest point of the 186cm 2009 Billy Goat. I think the photo might be a 2011 BillyGoat---not first-gen.

Those are 2011.

How many top World Freeride competitors are skiing their competition runs on BGs?

SuperGoat, but it's not that far off from a 189cm BG.

Stupid post. ON3P doesn’t have the budget. But they did have a guy on tour last year or the year before.

We could go after a FWT guy, at the expense of other team guys. But, in a business sense, I literally don't care about any competition skiing. Way more cost effective ways to get top-funnel marketing, and to do so without having to gamble on the competition side.

Huge amount of respect for those guys & girls. They are some of the best skiers in the world. Marketing them in today's age is a lot more difficult than it was even 3-4 years ago.

[SumJongGuy]

Thanks Iggy! Let's get back to bashing other skis now.

[SumJongGuy]

No really, I want Sum Jong Guy to tell us more about skiing in the maritime snow that spawned ON3P and Praxis.
And tell us all about your experience with deep snow. We've only had 4 feet of blower this week in our little corner of mediocrity.

Sorry but the act like an asshole and launch personal attacks thread is the Climate Change thread,, Again, wrong thread jong.

[Afkpuz]

This is an old post now but in the name of content:

And just to add: a lot of skis (and boots) seem to be made now for the new-school-which-is-kinda-old-school upright stance. On the boot factor, the suddenly new mechanics make my back spasm, and on the ski side, it can make them shitty and gutless, or hard to find the sweet spot on, or like they have too much tail and you can't make the turn shapes you want to.
If you're middle school and really started skiing for real about the early oughts (and eaier?) timeframe, this might not work, as you may be needing to be in a more forward stance because that's what you're used to. This can make it hard to find the sweet spot on the ski since you're either forward past the balance point, into the rocker (which hopefully isn't also soft) or too far back onto too much tail.

I started really skiing in the 2010s but learned old school/east coast, and this post clarified a ton to me about how I first felt about newschool mounts (and maybe a little bit about how I still feel sometimes,) so thank you for it! For what it's worth: I've got an old back injury that manifests as anterior pelvic tilt if I haven't been diligent with yoga/PT, and when that happens, I feel exactly these sensations. When I've actually done my work, I start to trust the skis again, even my nearly center-mounted pow sticks. I'm still pretty low on the beater-to-gnar scale so maybe this is a super obvious point, but it seems to me like my balance just needs to be way more involved and active than it did when I was a kid on that old-school "pressure the tip 'till you can't, then pressure it some more" gear. It's been a minute since I've been back on a super-traditional carver, but last time I did I remember feeling this compulsion to manage stuff that I didn't actually have to manage.

On-topic, I used to love my fatypus d'riddums. Haven't bothered with them this season. I still think they're cool, they're the ski that taught me it was okay to slarve, goofy fun to ski, and the fact that they track at all makes them way more stable than they have any right to be given the shape. But they basically want you to only turn like how Tanner Hall makes turns. Maybe I'm just bored with it, maybe it's because the last time I took them out I felt like I was skiing... sarcastically? But they're probably done. I don't hate the ski - no regrets, price was right, had some great times - I hate that I don't like it now. If there's room here for like five pages of redundant BG debate, there's room for ski relationship counseling, so anyway who wants to smoke crack with me and custom order like 700 of the shortest-radius gimmick skis we can find

[TBS]

Sorry but the act like an asshole and launch personal attacks thread is the Climate Change thread,, Again, wrong thread jong.

If this isn’t the act like an asshole thread, why are you here?

[SumJongGuy]

If this isn’t the act like an asshole thread, why am I here?

Fixed it for you

Edit to add, this will be my last response to your attacks. Imagine yourself on ignore or time out..