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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by WMD View Post
    Failure is not an option.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by The SnowShow View Post
    But the northern US will be so nice and warm during the winter. 70° mid winter days in NYC. Everyone there will be so FLOODED.
    Fixed it for you
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcski View Post
    Probably more people than you think rationalize it that way. I think there are quite a few people/ policy makers that are being two faced denying climate change in the hopes of that type of result. Mainly opening up the northwest passage and all the potential a less icy Arctic Ocean would create.
    Yes! 🤦♂️

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcski View Post
    Probably more people than you think rationalize it that way. I think there are quite a few people/ policy makers that are being two faced denying climate change in the hopes of that type of result. Mainly opening up the northwest passage and all the potential a less icy Arctic Ocean would create.
    That definitely seems to be the Russian way of thinking. (No joke, if you look at their actions re climate policy, petroleum policy, etc.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightRanger View Post
    That definitely seems to be the Russian way of thinking. (No joke, if you look at their actions re climate policy, petroleum policy, etc.)
    Moscow. The next Phoenix!

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by WMD View Post
    ....... electing more politicians like AOC (also a hero for speaking truth to power) and Bernie is the only way we will solve this problem.
    Did you really just proclaim that by electing more authoritarians who will rule by violence (regardless of which way they may politically lean), "we will solve this problem"?

    WTF is wrong with you?
    "The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of larger ideas, never returns to its original size."

  7. #82
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    Very Bad News on Climate

    Did you really just proclaim Bernie and AOC are authoritarians that rule by violence? Based on what, their long history w the military?

    WTF is wrong with you?

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcski View Post
    Did you really just proclaim Bernie and AOC are authoritarians that rule by violence? Based on what, their long history w the military?

    WTF is wrong with you?
    I think they likely incite violence indirectly.

    And, c'mon, poor Bernie needs more houses right? Maybe he could sell a couple to Al Gore if it becomes too much to manage.

  9. #84
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    Your hero AOC says the world will end in 12 years. Most sane people would consider that to be bay shit crazy


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3PinGrin View Post
    I think they likely incite violence indirectly.
    WTF??!!

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Kanone View Post
    Your hero AOC says the world will end in 12 years. Most sane people would consider that to be bay shit crazy


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    She misspoke, but she gets the idea right: "The world’s leading climate scientists have warned there is only a dozen years for global warming to be kept to a maximum of 1.5C, beyond which even half a degree will significantly worsen the risks of drought, floods, extreme heat and poverty for hundreds of millions of people."

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...mark-un-report

    She's human. Oh no!

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatChance View Post
    Oooooohh, passive aggressive confrontation. Cool!

    Actually I have educated myself, but thank you for the condescension and redirection of my comment! Totally unexpected.

    I worked internationally as an exploration geologist, specializing in the effect of paleo-climate changes on fluvial sedimentology. You? High school science?

    Riddle me these:

    What was the proper global temperature and when did that last happen? October 23, 4004 BC (you obviously know the reference), 1850 in the last little ice age, January 7, 1950 (my birthday) or last Tuesday? Are we too warm or too cold right now? Why or why not? What if the current climate is too cold (historically) right now? Is it blatant hubris to argue one way or another?

    When was "sea level" at the proper level? Is it too high or too low right now. It goes up and down over time, right? When do you think we started to accurately measure it?

    When in the last 10,000 years was the amount of polar ice "right"?

    When was the last time it was a good idea to insure buildings and support their reconstruction in the California forests or on the SE American coastal areas? Never?

    How far back in history do you trust the technology of environmental marker measurements? 500 years? 100 years? 50 years? Last Tuesday?

    Is change inherently good or bad? That is a simple question.

    Do you admit to a political bias in this issue? Nevermind, that really doesn't matter, does it?

    "Science" only has meaning when you have an understanding of the combination of time, history, popular educational focus, proper methodology and technology, population levels, and an appreciation of the effect of politics versus technology (study the Church and Galileo to start).

    FWIW, you know the real problem is excessive population, not lifestyle, don't you? Or not. Maybe we are on the way to the "proper" global environmental balance, but you can't refute it, one way or another.

    Please show your work.


    Edit: Maybe I just had too much rum tonight and made up all of that. Or not. But you don't really know, do you?

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    Your questions are easy to answer . The proper temperature. Sea level. And polar ice is what we have now, or maybe what we had 100 years ago , that is, the climate that allows human life on earth and the lives of the millions of species we depend on to go about in regular stability. The acceptable level of change is that which is slow enough for current species to adapt (ie move) without undue pain and suffering. In the long run of course all current species will be replaced by others.The question is whether change will occur so fast that the diversity of life will greatly diminish to the point where it is insufficient to support ecosystems. And in the ultimate long run it doesn't matter if life on earth continues to exist. It doesn't matter if existence continues to exist. Of course all this reductionist thinking is a waste of time. Our goal should be to minimize pain and suffering by keeping global temperature stable.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Your questions are easy to answer . The proper temperature. Sea level. And polar ice is what we have now, or maybe what we had 100 years ago , that is, the climate that allows human life on earth and the lives of the millions of species we depend on to go about in regular stability. The acceptable level of change is that which is slow enough for current species to adapt (ie move) without undue pain and suffering. In the long run of course all current species will be replaced by others.The question is whether change will occur so fast that the diversity of life will greatly diminish to the point where it is insufficient to support ecosystems. And in the ultimate long run it doesn't matter if life on earth continues to exist. It doesn't matter if existence continues to exist. Of course all this reductionist thinking is a waste of time. Our goal should be to minimize pain and suffering by keeping global temperature stable.
    Calm logical responses are lost on deniers...#sad #losing. They get their info from yelling talking heads, so yelling back is their MO.

    FC didn't really want his questions answered, he just wanted to rant.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Your questions are easy to answer . The proper temperature. Sea level. And polar ice is what we have now, or maybe what we had 100 years ago , that is, the climate that allows human life on earth and the lives of the millions of species we depend on to go about in regular stability. The acceptable level of change is that which is slow enough for current species to adapt (ie move) without undue pain and suffering. In the long run of course all current species will be replaced by others.The question is whether change will occur so fast that the diversity of life will greatly diminish to the point where it is insufficient to support ecosystems. And in the ultimate long run it doesn't matter if life on earth continues to exist. It doesn't matter if existence continues to exist. Of course all this reductionist thinking is a waste of time. Our goal should be to minimize pain and suffering by keeping global temperature stable.
    Finally, a voice of reason.

    Cool the earth. Save humans. Save skiing.

    Wtf else is there to debate?

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  15. #90
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    Good post, Old Goat. That was the first intelligent response.

    Have you given thought to the people living in places that would benefit from the changing climate? Any change like this has both winners and losers. I never hear any discussion of that, probably because it does not further the political agenda of so many.
    Last edited by FatChance; 02-24-2019 at 09:11 AM.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by WMD View Post
    She misspoke, but she gets the idea right: "The world’s leading climate scientists have warned there is only a dozen years for global warming to be kept to a maximum of 1.5C, beyond which even half a degree will significantly worsen the risks of drought, floods, extreme heat and poverty for hundreds of millions of people."

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...mark-un-report

    She's human. Oh no!
    The problem is that she misspeaks a LOT. And every time she does it enrages the right and frankly many of the left who are more prone to supporting facts over rhetoric. I've worked on environmental issues for a long time, am certainly concerned about global warming, and have voted mostly Democrat my entire life. People like her make me cringe though because they don't create progress, they thwart it by deepening the divide and spreading misinformation. She needs to understand the implications of what she spouts off a little better.

    It's like the old hippy in my neighborhood that we are pretty sure is shooting out large truck and SUV windows because he is opposed to that type of transportation. The sheriff is aware but we can't catch him in the act. Several sightings of him walking down the street hand pumping his non existent rifle pointed at SUVs and trucks though.

    The dude drives an old leaky Subaru, backpacks all over the state, but has a handicap tag on his car. I have no doubt he's a big AOC fan.

  17. #92
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    Very Bad News on Climate

    Quote Originally Posted by 3PinGrin View Post
    The problem is that she misspeaks a LOT.
    I don't believe in coincidence or accident when it comes to politicians of any variety when it comes to their related actions or words. Human or not, their in that position due to their messaging...
    Alpental Indigenous

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    The acceptable level of change is that which is slow enough for current species to adapt (ie move) without undue pain and suffering. In the long run of course all current species will be replaced by others.The question is whether change will occur so fast that the diversity of life will greatly diminish to the point where it is insufficient to support ecosystems.
    The answer to this question is that an estimated 60% of species' diversity has been lost in the last half decade. If our ecosystems are the canary, we're chocking on black lung. This isn't a direct cause of climate change (although ecosystem services are lost); just another correlation to unsustainable consumption

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenstateofmind View Post
    The answer to this question is that an estimated 60% of species' diversity has been lost in the last half decade.
    So, are you claiming that about 6 million species (out of about 10 million species) have gone extinct in the last 5 years? Really?

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  20. #95
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    Politics have created a circus called, "Global Warming" which is what most folks respond to. After reading one journal entry about the "end of snow", I'd rather look at additional sources - ones without government ties.

    Sure, I think we are fucking up our planet, but I'm not sold on the CO2 theory - yet. CO2 isn't the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere - it's H20. Water vapor (cloud formations) is what causes most of the global warming (do some research on the planet Venus to fully understand).

    So, does extra CO2 cause more water vapor? Many scientist say it does, because it traps more radiated heat from the earth which then creates higher temps, but none of this crap is proven; just theorized. There are scientific pundits that argue these things in other texts.

    Regardless, I think it's common sense that burning fossil fuels at alarming rates can fuck shit up. But - nobody wants to do anything about it. You, me, politicians, etc. If anyone did, we could effectively eliminate it by half tomorrow (cars/airplanes/etc). Is it causing our climate to go haywire? Nobody knows for certain.. Yet...

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauldotcom View Post
    Politics have created a circus called, "Global Warming" which is what most folks respond to. After reading one journal entry about the "end of snow", I'd rather look at additional sources - ones without government ties.

    Sure, I think we are fucking up our planet, but I'm not sold on the CO2 theory - yet. CO2 isn't the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere - it's H20. Water vapor (cloud formations) is what causes most of the global warming (do some research on the planet Venus to fully understand).

    So, does extra CO2 cause more water vapor? Many scientist say it does, because it traps more radiated heat from the earth which then creates higher temps, but none of this crap is proven; just theorized. There are scientific pundits that argue these things in other texts.

    Regardless, I think it's common sense that burning fossil fuels at alarming rates can fuck shit up. But - nobody wants to do anything about it. You, me, politicians, etc. If anyone did, we could effectively eliminate it by half tomorrow (cars/airplanes/etc). Is it causing our climate to go haywire? Nobody knows for certain.. Yet...
    Stop using plains and automobiles? Heck no! I got me an Ikon pass this year and I'm powder chasing storm cycles. My Monday water cooler stories have never been so #alltime.

    Yeah, we're fucked. everyone talks a big talk but they don't really do anything about it. Sure they post up links to articles and argue things on the internet but in reality it's life as usual with their non stop over the top consumerism.

    I like what Old Goat said but one can also argue that the reason for this abrupt change in climate is a result of the current human population and an abrupt climate change will likely fix the current human population problem.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    Stop using plains and automobiles?
    The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plane.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatChance View Post
    Good post, Old Goat. That was the first intelligent response.

    Have you given thought to the people living in places that would benefit from the changing climate? Any change like this has both winners and losers. I never hear any discussion of that, probably because it does not further the political agenda of so many.

    Nobody makes money on saying the climate is cooling

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by pisteoff View Post
    The rain in Spain falls mainly on the plane.
    It's gonna rain on the mountains now too.

    Edit, ha! I see what you did there. *planes
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    Yeah, we're fucked. everyone talks a big talk but they don't really do anything about it. Sure they post up links to articles and argue things on the internet but in reality it's life as usual with their non stop over the top consumerism.
    Exactly. Bernie has 3 houses - imagine how big his carbon footprint is? Yet he want's you to ride a bike to work.

    Also, think about the economic impact of not burning fossil fuels. The entire world's economy will go to shit and all our towns will look like Ethiopia. Either way we are fucked.

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