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  1. #1
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    Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    Do you even train Bro?
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  3. #3
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    It's that just wrestling with shaved pubes?

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutash View Post
    It's that just wrestling with shaved pubes?
    No. That would be banging your old lady.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutash View Post
    It's that just wrestling with shaved pubes?
    Nah, it's wrestling where it's ok to pull someone on top of you and hug them.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds! View Post
    Nah, it's wrestling where it's ok to pull someone on top of you and hug them.
    Wrestling is 1/2 of BJJ. I love when wrestlers come to the gym. It's so fun to strangle the ego out of them. Give them a clean look at a single leg and just triangle choke the afternoon away. Good times.

  7. #7
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    I've tried it. The whole first year is basically just trying to survive. Once you can survive for awhile then you learn how to try and escape.

    I prefer skiing.
    ::.:..::::.::.:.::..::.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by wicked_sick View Post
    I've tried it. The whole first year is basically just trying to survive. Once you can survive for awhile then you learn how to try and escape.

    I prefer skiing.
    It is very challenging. That's why I always liked grappling. Weak humans quit.....or become strong humans. Most quit.

  9. #9
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    could we get a dick measuring sub forum?
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  10. #10
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    Same old dave.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  11. #11
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    Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is one of the main reasons the Brazilian armed forces are feared and respected around the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is one of the main reasons the Brazilian armed forces are feared and respected around the world.
    Like most South American countries their armed forces are only in feared within their country.

    Dave is very scawy though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  13. #13
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    I'd be more into Defendu. Obecive is to kill, not to maim or merely injure.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Like most South American countries their armed forces are only in feared within their country.

    Dave is very scawy though.
    Yeah, because clearly martial arts is all about dick measuring. There's a UFC thread so I figured maybe there were some other players....guess not.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveVt View Post
    Yeah, because clearly martial arts is all about dick measuring.
    Or strangling the ego out of weak humans... apparently.

    You sound like the Kevin Kline character in A Fish Called Wanda..
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveVt View Post
    Wrestling is 1/2 of BJJ.
    Not sure you're saying that wrestling is half as awesome, or it makes up half of BJJ.

    Most forms of wrestling focus predominantly on the takedown (e.g. Freestyle, Greco, and even more so Sumo, Mongolian, Turkish, Senegalese, etc.). American Collegiate/Folkstyle is pretty balanced compared to most. Even thought the US has more people involved in youth wrestling than any other country, this has prevented us from being the best internationally. In this country we spend too much time on the mat as kids to develop the technique that you see in the Russians or Iranians. I think we should scrap Folkstyle wrestling altogether and focus on Freestyle. An awesome throw should be worth 5 points.

    BJJ comparatively ignores the takedown. This is a great equalizer for the old and the unathletic, which I should appreciate given my age and decreasing athleticism, but when I've "rolled" with BJJ guys I could't help thinking "this is the part of wrestling you've chosen to focus on?" The choking and bone snapping part is cool, I guess, but the falling on your back part pisses me off. I was also surprised how quickly guys ten + years younger than me would get gassed, then just lie down against a half-broken man pushing 40 (at the time). You don't develop the same fitness when you're on your back/knees. That said, the overall intensity and mastery is much better in BJJ than the judo clubs I've been to. If I ever need to move away from mountains I can see myself getting into it. It's not like my body can handle wrestling any more.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Or strangling the ego out of weak humans... apparently.

    You sound like the Kevin Kline character in A Fish Called Wanda..
    Wrestlers are not weak. They just don't understand submissions. Weak humans quit wrestling as well. I m not talking about physical strength and I almost never tap lower belts unless they roll with way too much strength and no technique..
    ..like every wrestler to ever come into a bjj gym myself included. I got mercilessly choked for a good 6 months before I figured it out.

  18. #18
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    This thread reminds me of giving oneself a nickname.
    It makes perfect sense...until you think about it.

    I suspect there's logic behind the madness, but I'm too dumb to see it.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds! View Post
    Not sure you're saying that wrestling is half as awesome, or it makes up half of BJJ.

    Most forms of wrestling focus predominantly on the takedown (e.g. Freestyle, Greco, and even more so Sumo, Mongolian, Turkish, Senegalese, etc.). American Collegiate/Folkstyle is pretty balanced compared to most. Even thought the US has more people involved in youth wrestling than any other country, this has prevented us from being the best internationally. In this country we spend too much time on the mat as kids to develop the technique that you see in the Russians or Iranians. I think we should scrap Folkstyle wrestling altogether and focus on Freestyle. An awesome throw should be worth 5 points.

    BJJ comparatively ignores the takedown. This is a great equalizer for the old and the unathletic, which I should appreciate given my age and decreasing athleticism, but when I've "rolled" with BJJ guys I could't help thinking "this is the part of wrestling you've chosen to focus on?" The choking and bone snapping part is cool, I guess, but the falling on your back part pisses me off. I was also surprised how quickly guys ten + years younger than me would get gassed, then just lie down against a half-broken man pushing 40 (at the time). You don't develop the same fitness when you're on your back/knees. That said, the overall intensity and mastery is much better in BJJ than the judo clubs I've been to. If I ever need to move away from mountains I can see myself getting into it. It's not like my body can handle wrestling any more.
    Wrestling techniques make up half of what JiuJitsu encompasses. BJJ does not ignore the take down. Judo is a part of JiuJitsu, and includes single legs, double legs, Hi Crotch entries, fireman's carries, ect. As well as all the grecco and freestyle throws including back arch techniques. Sombo was simply a russian who learned jiujitsu/judo in japan and went back to russia and taught it to a bunch of Russian wrestlers.

    The IBJJF has made a rule set that does not penalize the guard pull. It has made for some very weird gi tendencies like double guard pulling. Other organizations like the ADCC have changed the rules and you don't see it at their events. In either case the IBJJF or ADCC is not JiuJitsu.

    If you were a wrestler and went to a BJJ gym to roll, and the point of the roll is to submit the opponent, as it is, then the BJJ guy took the fight to the place he had the most advantage. Contesting the take down is dangerous, and ending up in bottom side control can suck against a wrestler because they understand pressure and control so sitting guard was to their best advantage, sounds like a good game plan. While I did enjoy freestlyle and grecco a lot more than folk style wrestling I think American Folk Style mat wrestling is awesome and would be a better preparation into full fledged submission wrestling. The tendency it teaches to go down to our stomach an obvious disadvantage in real world self defense, the pressure and control, even more so for leggers, directly translates where as the mat work in freestyle and grecco is almost completely detached from wrestling roots as a combat sport in pancration.

    I would disagree about the state of Freestyle and Grecco in the states vs abroad. We are consistently in the top 3 globally and have had many many international champions and icons. I think what gives Russia and Iran and the region in general the advantage is they are less removed from conflict and combat as part of their life and culture. Wrestling is their Football. As you can see above, our culture does not value this anymore as compared to ball sports.

    BJJ has been as awesome way for me, also to old to hold up the rigors of wrestling practice, to continue to study and evolve as a grappler. I wrestle for position and use jiujitsu for submission. Good schools do not differentiate between wrestling and bjj, but there are a lot of not so good schools out there and there is quite a bit of animosity between the two arts in some places. I certainly felt it when I started, but now as a brown belt I realize it was because I was showing up to show what I knew as a wrestler vs BJJ and not to learn BJJ. That is the wrestler ego that I got choked out of me. Yes I could take down everyone in the gym, and then they would strangle and joint lock me to death so what good was the take down?

    The wrestling is the hardest part to learn and most BJJ players won't have the time or interest to do the drilling needed to have tight take down games. When BJJ incorporates strong wrestling it becomes a very difficult skill set to deal with. I love it all.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X3BRF69w2s
    Last edited by DaveVt; 02-07-2019 at 02:07 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveVt View Post
    Wrestlers are not weak. They just don't understand submissions. Weak humans quit wrestling as well. I m not talking about physical strength and I almost never tap lower belts unless they roll with way too much strength and no technique..
    ..like every wrestler to ever come into a bjj gym myself included. I got mercilessly choked for a good 6 months before I figured it out.
    One of the styles I train is called Arnis Jitsu, which is a combination of Modern Arnis (filipino MA that I train) and more traditional Jiu Jitsu. We do pull A LOT of BJJ into our ground game. I really like training with BBJJ practitioners as I learn great techniques. We likely don't roll as much as BJJ schools (at least the ones I've visited) though I try to roll as much as I can. We focus as much on lock flows (borrow a lot from empty handed techniques of Modern Arnis and Kubotan Jiu Jitsu) from the feet and takedowns. We also bring knives and strikes into our ground work as we advance, but I don't know if BJJ does that.

    When it comes to wrestlers I think their learning curve is a lot less steep than non-wrestlers as they already have weight distribution techniques down. We have a couple wrestlers training with us. One is less than half my age at 20 and has a good 60 lbs. on me. When he first started I could tap him out, but after a year training with us now it is all I can do to hold my own. In fact he just entered a submission only grappling tournament in Milwaukee, WI last month, which was his second tournament and won his weight class (230 lbs.) at blue belt with I think an heel hook.

    I'm currently working on chokes for my next promotion. Chokes kind of freak me out, because they are so quick and if I'm rolling with a guy that doesn't like to tap it could go bad.


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grange View Post
    One of the styles I train is called Arnis Jitsu, which is a combination of Modern Arnis (filipino MA that I train) and more traditional Jiu Jitsu. We do pull A LOT of BJJ into our ground game. I really like training with BBJJ practitioners as I learn great techniques. We likely don't roll as much as BJJ schools (at least the ones I've visited) though I try to roll as much as I can. We focus as much on lock flows (borrow a lot from empty handed techniques of Modern Arnis and Kubotan Jiu Jitsu) from the feet and takedowns. We also bring knives and strikes into our ground work as we advance, but I don't know if BJJ does that.

    When it comes to wrestlers I think their learning curve is a lot less steep than non-wrestlers as they already have weight distribution techniques down. We have a couple wrestlers training with us. One is less than half my age at 20 and has a good 60 lbs. on me. When he first started I could tap him out, but after a year training with us now it is all I can do to hold my own. In fact he just entered a submission only grappling tournament in Milwaukee, WI last month, which was his second tournament and won his weight class (230 lbs.) at blue belt with I think an heel hook.

    I'm currently working on chokes for my next promotion. Chokes kind of freak me out, because they are so quick and if I'm rolling with a guy that doesn't like to tap it could go bad.
    I'm lucky to train with a high level Silat guy so we do blade work. We box, kickbox, and do stick work borrowing from indonesian martial arts. Chokes seem more safe to me than joint locks. If people don't tap it's not important to me to convince them too. If they go to sleep in class no big deal, If I tear an acl, rotator cuff, and fracture an elbow it's not so good. If I have a lock and someone won't tap I will use it to transition to a choke. People might take a pop to the knee or elbow....but everyone goes to sleep when there's no blood flow to the brain. I imagine you are not learning gi chokes? So Guillotines, back chokes, Triangles, arm triangles?


    Blades are the most terrifying aspect of conflict to me. With a good knifer, you'll never even know he's armed until your guts fall out and you paint the walls red.

  22. #22
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    Pffft. Iím a black belt in RunFu.

  23. #23
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    Damn DaveTV you are a brown belt? You must have a great ground game. I'll be going for my brown belt in Arnis Jitsu this year though our brown belt is really quite different than a BJJ brown belt. I'd guess my grappling techniques are maybe on par with a competent BJJ blue belt or if I'm really lucky a newer purple belt.


  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveVt View Post
    I'm lucky to train with a high level Silat guy so we do blade work. We box, kickbox, and do stick work borrowing from indonesian martial arts. Chokes seem more safe to me than joint locks. If people don't tap it's not important to me to convince them too. If they go to sleep in class no big deal, If I tear an acl, rotator cuff, and fracture an elbow it's not so good. If I have a lock and someone won't tap I will use it to transition to a choke. People might take a pop to the knee or elbow....but everyone goes to sleep when there's no blood flow to the brain.

    Blades are the most terrifying aspect of conflict to me. With a good knifer, you'll never even know he's armed until your guts fall out and you paint the walls red.
    I'm going for my black belt this year in Modern Arnis and we always say that if you get into a knife fight no matter how good you are you are likely to get cut. I remember we were doing a live drill with training knife that you can put chalk on so you'll know where you got cut. My sensei came at me and by the time I dis-armed him I had several slashes with the most alarming one was along my neck over the carotid artery.

    I'm supposed to teach class tonight If the weather allows me to make it to the dojo and I'm planning on working some knife drills.

    I train with a gi. For chokes air chokes are fairly easy, but the blood chokes are the ones I'm working on. Some are much easier than others, but for some reason a basic cross lapel choke has gotten me frustrated. I can get eventually but in live rolling I tend to miss my mark more than others.


  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveVt View Post
    I'm lucky to train with a high level Silat guy so we do blade work. We box, kickbox, and do stick work borrowing from indonesian martial arts. Chokes seem more safe to me than joint locks. If people don't tap it's not important to me to convince them too. If they go to sleep in class no big deal, If I tear an acl, rotator cuff, and fracture an elbow it's not so good. If I have a lock and someone won't tap I will use it to transition to a choke. People might take a pop to the knee or elbow....but everyone goes to sleep when there's no blood flow to the brain. I imagine you are not learning gi chokes? So Guillotines, back chokes, Triangles, arm triangles?


    Blades are the most terrifying aspect of conflict to me. With a good knifer, you'll never even know he's armed until your guts fall out and you paint the walls red.
    Break the wrist, walk away.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

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