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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    65

    PB&J or Kartel 96?

    I'm a small dude - 5'5 and 130#. Looking for skis for all non-deep days. I'm on 174 Bibbys for any day with >8" of new snow and I love that ski.

    I'm looking for something playful that can handle crud, some light pow in a pinch, and is fun on groomers early season. I don't jib or go huge but like to hit every 3-5ft features I can find. Not a charger but like to get aggressive and go fast occasionally.

    Debating between PB&J at 172 or Kartel 96 at 171 or 176. What do you guys think? Or are there other skis I should be thinking about here? Thanks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Den/Baltimore
    Posts
    5,129
    Obviously a case can be made for either ski, so best option would be to demo. Have you skied an ON3P ski before? I think they ski a bit different than your beloved moments (depending on which year Bibby you have): bamboo is less torsionally stiff with more pop.

    That said, I think the 171 K96 seems like a good choice if you want something more playful than Bibby but still with a backbone. Length is about right, too, since the 171 ON3P is probably more like a 173 from Moment.
    Last edited by auvgeek; 02-02-2019 at 09:58 PM.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    North,NorthEast
    Posts
    2,495
    176, kartels ski a bit short

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    63
    From my experience pbj feels more racey/torsionally stiff while the kartel is a bit more jibby. With that said, kartel is probably just as bomber due to its bamboo core and heavier weight. Kartel also has a bit more rocker

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    201
    If you love bibby then definitely go for pbj. It has the same charge/playfullness feeling just quicker edge-to-edge and all the other features of narrower ski

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    86
    Iíve owned both and would say pb&j but the Kartel is great as well. The pb&j imo is maybe the best 1 ski quiver at 100 wide ever made.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    167
    can't speak for the pb&j

    kartel is a ridiculously fun ski in pow, chopped up, soft to firmish crud, bumps, etc...not what i would describe as "fun" on groomers tho. i find myself heading to piste edges and tracked up/light bumps on groomers with mine just to ensure consistent turns with less chatter, otherwise just point n send on firm (108 width btw)

    wren is a much more consistent firm snow performing ski from on3p but still prefers softer snow overall

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    65
    Thanks everyone! Leaning towards PB&J given feedback here and I'll look for a demo. You guys have any experience on the Rustler 10? Is that comparable to these skis at all?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    76
    Quote Originally Posted by fk View Post
    Thanks everyone! Leaning towards PB&J given feedback here and I'll look for a demo. You guys have any experience on the Rustler 10? Is that comparable to these skis at all?
    The Rustler 10 is softer and lighter than either one and the binding mount a bit further back too. Rustler 10 getting a thicker core next year to beef it up though.
    The Rustler 9 though would compare very well with the PB&J in weight, flex but the Rustler 9 has far better grip on hard snow and more of a carver/free ride type ski than the PB&J or Kartel 96. Doesnít have thick bases or edges though and not as playful as the Kartel. Have the Rustler 9 (with the binding mount up a bit) and PB&J. The PB&J is better on soft snow or through crud but Rustler 9 better at carving, tight trees and actually better float. Considering switching the PB&J for the new Wildcat 108 or Enforcer Free 104 as the Rustler 9 is so good for itís width.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by noslow View Post
    The Rustler 10 is softer and lighter than either one and the binding mount a bit further back too. Rustler 10 getting a thicker core next year to beef it up though.
    The Rustler 9 though would compare very well with the PB&J in weight, flex but the Rustler 9 has far better grip on hard snow and more of a carver/free ride type ski than the PB&J or Kartel 96. Doesn’t have thick bases or edges though and not as playful as the Kartel. Have the Rustler 9 (with the binding mount up a bit) and PB&J. The PB&J is better on soft snow or through crud but Rustler 9 better at carving, tight trees and actually better float. Considering switching the PB&J for the new Wildcat 108 or Enforcer Free 104 as the Rustler 9 is so good for it’s width.
    Interesting! What do you mean by the PB&J being better on soft snow but the Rustler 9 having better float?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    113
    Quote Originally Posted by fk View Post
    Interesting! What do you mean by the PB&J being better on soft snow but the Rustler 9 having better float?
    The PB&Js are quite stiff and have loads of rocker so they pivot really easily in soft snow and demolish chop for how light they are, but because of the stiffness+more centered mounting point I have had issues with the tips diving in untracked snow. I haven't skied the rustlers but imagine their softer flex and more traditional mount point contribute to their superior float in untracked, even if they aren't as good of a ski for soft chopped up snow.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Den/Baltimore
    Posts
    5,129
    Might also want to add the Praxis Piste Jib to the mix.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    76
    Quote Originally Posted by TeleBeaver View Post
    The PB&Js are quite stiff and have loads of rocker so they pivot really easily in soft snow and demolish chop for how light they are, but because of the stiffness+more centered mounting point I have had issues with the tips diving in untracked snow. I haven't skied the rustlers but imagine their softer flex and more traditional mount point contribute to their superior float in untracked, even if they aren't as good of a ski for soft chopped up snow.
    Exactly! Find the PB&J is nice and surfy on soft snow and very good through crud but because of the long rocker and how I find you usually have to detune up to the contact point, you donít have a ton of effective edge on them. The Rustler 9 I can run sharp tip to tail and it doesnít seem to catch yet it holds great when on edge. The Rustler 9 is actually slightly stiffer than the PB&Js but very similar flex-solid underfoot and softer tip/tail. Rustler 10 is softer than either ski.
    I have my PB&Js mounted about 5.25cm back so just back from rec and my Rustlers about 6.25cm back(1.5cm forward) and used the PB&Js on about 8Ē of fresh yesterday and they were catching and diving like crazy. Donít know if itís the tip shape or rocker profile but my Rustler 9 seem to rise above it better and not seem as catchy. Wasnít supposed to snow at all and didnít bring my Bibbys on the trip as they would have killed it.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by noslow View Post
    Exactly! Find the PB&J is nice and surfy on soft snow and very good through crud but because of the long rocker and how I find you usually have to detune up to the contact point, you don’t have a ton of effective edge on them. The Rustler 9 I can run sharp tip to tail and it doesn’t seem to catch yet it holds great when on edge. The Rustler 9 is actually slightly stiffer than the PB&Js but very similar flex-solid underfoot and softer tip/tail. Rustler 10 is softer than either ski.
    I have my PB&Js mounted about 5.25cm back so just back from rec and my Rustlers about 6.25cm back(1.5cm forward) and used the PB&Js on about 8” of fresh yesterday and they were catching and diving like crazy. Don’t know if it’s the tip shape or rocker profile but my Rustler 9 seem to rise above it better and not seem as catchy. Wasn’t supposed to snow at all and didn’t bring my Bibbys on the trip as they would have killed it.
    Thanks! Sounds Rustler 9 is definitely worth considering in a 1-2 quiver with my Bibbys. Oh man...decisions decisions

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