Epic Pass Restrictions Effects on Crested Butte, Telluride and Beyond

[Name Redacted]

Re: CB lift upgrade


Vail bought KIrkwood about 7 years ago. That installed safety bars. Not a single other lift upgrade or plan for one in that time. Just more crowds, more stupid people on the roads and in the corral, more people sitting on the traverse, more traverse lines and more snow scraped down the mountain. Winning.

Well, they (CB) do have a sign up touting a new HSQ being installed next year to replace the Teo lift at CB. Could definitely be a relief on the current Paradise lift. I'm not saying Vail would invest billions in CB, but there is hope. I also heard a rumor of one of the T-bars being replaced with a quad, which is disappointing.

[Bunion 2020]

Bringing my Ikon pass for a visit in Feb.

if the opportunity arises for a beer or a lap with ya.

Love 2, I will buy the 1st pint.

Hopefully the high temp of 4 degrees will thin the line for me tomorrow.

It has been weird, super cold in the meadow and balmy up high. The drive home this afternoon was as bad as any I have done, puking snow, lot of traffic, lot of poor visibility. It was in the single digits and when I entered the valley, down to -1. We have a great over running scenario for tomorrow right before it gets really cold on Thursday. Tram line hasn't really been that bad, but bad enough.

As for the passes and their merits and drawbacks it makes me rethink my situation. Be easy enough to buy a bronze pass and an IKON or MC or Epic and use the days at Big Sky on the occasional weekend days that my Bronze pass is no good. That and travel with the IKON etc and become a part of the new way to pay for skiing.

[yeahman]

It has been weird, super cold in the meadow and balmy up high. The drive home this afternoon was as bad as any I have done, puking snow, lot of traffic, lot of poor visibility. It was in the single digits and when I entered the valley, down to -1. We have a great over running scenario for tomorrow right before it gets really cold on Thursday. Tram line hasn't really been that bad, but bad enough.

Huh, NOAA Lone Peak forecast I'm looking at says 4 degrees tomorrow and 7 on Thursday. I was hoping that's cold enough to convince the Ikonics to spend the day shopping, or drinking, or whatever.

Sounds like a nasty drive today, I plan on taking my time getting there in the a.m.

[steeznutz]

If that is true, then each deal is mountain specific; maybe they offered Telluride a sweet deal. No way that is the deal for all partner mountains.

I'm just speculating here, but I suspect the deal for Vail-affiliate properties works similar to that of high-end hotels. A lot of the higher-end hotels are actually independent franchises, but fly the "Ritz Carlton" flag, or "Four Seasons" or whatever. The hotel kicks a little revenue up to the brand, and while the brand delivers a centralized booking platform and allows the customer to know they are getting similar quality whether they book the Four Seasons in Boston or DC. In the ski resort model, I could see where a partner resort might pay Vail an initial fee to be part of the network, but then Vail pays them back a certain $ figure each time a pass is scanned. I'd also bet there are thresholds based on skier-days whereby compensation varies.

[Bunion 2020]

I don't think you are speculating wrong.

I would speculate that IKON VS Epic VS MC are all based on different revenue sharing streams/schemes.


Be interesting to see if IKON offers Japan and/or Europe next season.

Huh, NOAA Lone Peak forecast I'm looking at says 4 degrees tomorrow and 7 on Thursday. I was hoping that's cold enough to convince the Ikonics to spend the day shopping, or drinking, or whatever.

Suppose to be Sunny on Thurs. Could be good or could be frigid. Webcam makes it look somewhat clear down yonder.

[Gone Skiing]

Well, they (CB) do have a sign up touting a new HSQ being installed next year to replace the Teo lift at CB. Could definitely be a relief on the current Paradise lift. I'm not saying Vail would invest billions in CB, but there is hope. I also heard a rumor of one of the T-bars being replaced with a quad, which is disappointing.

Fixed grip quad. Still should help. They didn't have time this fall to do the decade of deferred lift maintenance, but they've brought in a bunch more mechanics. Hopefully this summer they can do what needs to be done to keep the queen and paradise from shutting down. The queen is often down for wind, which is a function of where it is more than the lift itself.

I'll be fine with chairs to access the north face because it will come with lifts in the Teo drainage. That will be cool. My dream scenario is a queen replacement that goes to the top of the headwall and an east river or paradise lift that goes to the top of the NFL. Imagine the amount of skiing you could get!

[goldenboy]

Imagine the size of the bumps you could get!

Fixed it for you.

[phishstx]

I'm just speculating here, but I suspect the deal for Vail-affiliate properties works similar to that of high-end hotels [ . . . ] In the ski resort model, I could see where a partner resort might pay Vail an initial fee to be part of the network, but then Vail pays them back a certain $ figure each time a pass is scanned. I'd also bet there are thresholds based on skier-days whereby compensation varies.

This seems to make sense, though there may not always be upfront fees to the third party resorts to join. For the Epic Pass it looks like there are some minimums that Vail pays out to the "alliance" members, I guess to further incentivize them to get on board. Their most recent annual report mentions "strategic long-term season pass alliance agreements with third-party mountain resorts in which the Company has committed to pay minimum revenue guarantees over the remaining terms of these agreements." The guarantees are lumped in with construction costs and add up to $430 million in the next five years. Have to imagine construction is the bulk of that though.

[Alpinord]

There's something to be said about podunk ski areas off the beaten path. The one chair wait was a bitch on a powder day. Every once in a while a private 'fishing hole' has the goods @ 11:22AM:

[Tamburello Rouge]

I don't think you are speculating wrong.

I would speculate that IKON VS Epic VS MC are all based on different revenue sharing streams/schemes.


Be interesting to see if IKON offers Japan and/or Europe next season.

Ikon already includes Niseko.

[Yukonrider]

I'll be fine with chairs to access the north face because it will come with lifts in the Teo drainage. That will be cool. My dream scenario is a queen replacement that goes to the top of the headwall and an east river or paradise lift that goes to the top of the NFL. Imagine the amount of skiing you could get!

But then how will I get snow in my face at 3pm on a pow day?

[muted]

Anyone come up with a good Ikon acronym? If it was Ikol: I Krowd Over Locals. But it isn’t.

I’m reaching here, help me out.

[Spats]

5 years ago the place was so quiet I was convinced that it was a front for laundering money, and I'm sure it was "busy" compared to a decade earlier.

In the early 2000s we divided up the stashes at Solitude by the time of day you could hit them and they'd still be fresh. Example, we never bothered hitting Cathedral until maybe 1PM. A cheesesteak and fries was $6 at the base, and the only maggots who ever skied there were Lumpy, BobMc, and me.

[goldenboy]

Very curious what tomorrow will bring to CB. Lots of new snow + blackout = ? Consensus seems to be massive lines, which might not be a big deal if they can get terrain open.

[Name Redacted]

And is one really busy day really that big of a deal?

[Bunion 2020]

No it is not, I expect Presidents Weekend to be busy. Oddly enough with Blackouts it may be more sedate.

Rode a chair today with a guy from the Front Range and his 2 boys. They were on MC passes and had just hiked and skied Headwaters. The boys needed some sugar but they were stoked. He brought up the subject and we chatted about it. It was a good day of skiing.

Edit to add, skied today 2/16 in good conditions and the parking lots were maxed but the mountain didn't seem that crowded.

Riding up a chair with 2 IKONs from SLC they remarked that yesterday in the Tram Line they detected some IKON hate and grumbling while noticing that by that point the wind and weather were so hideous that most everyone in line was a season pass holder and they all knew each other. I can confirm that to be a fact.
Funny shit.

[goldenboy]

And is one really busy day really that big of a deal?

Nope. I think the heavy snow kept a lot of people off the hill today. Lines were all over the place- usually 5 or 10 minutes which is more than normal for our spoiled selves, but obviously not that bad. Waited in one 20+ minute line, but also rolled onto the NF lift in the afternoon with zero wait.

[Yukonrider]

Nope. I think the heavy snow kept a lot of people off the hill today. Lines were all over the place- usually 5 or 10 minutes which is more than normal for our spoiled selves, but obviously not that bad. Waited in one 20+ minute line, but also rolled onto the NF lift in the afternoon with zero wait.

Got two runs in from 9 to noon, then from noon to close the place was empty for a weekend, really weird.

[EWG]

Got two runs in from 9 to noon, then from noon to close the place was empty for a weekend, really weird.

it feels like that often happens on sunday afternoons at C.B. not sure why.

[thommy21]

Think the Cold AM report kept people away this morning. Really didn’t run into much backlog. Yesterday the East River line had a lot to do with the person running the line. Instead of front row, was pointing to people and letting them go out. In no real organized way. Even the ski school folks were commenting on that and they get dibs on cutting in. All good will be quiet again until Spring Break and the Mountain has filled in nicely.

[EWG]

Nice. Is spellbound filled back in or still boney? I’m getting a few days in midweek the week after next. Looking forward to it.

[Gone Skiing]

Filled in, still bony, depending on where you are. Mostly pretty good, by our standards. Dead end is still dry dock city.

[funkendrenchman]

Since Vail bought CB, Real Deal passes are no longer available. Anyone have a lead on discounted tickets? I have 50% off Aspen/Snowmass tickets to trade.

[steadieflow]

In the early 2000s we divided up the stashes at Solitude by the time of day you could hit them and they'd still be fresh. Example, we never bothered hitting Cathedral until maybe 1PM. A cheesesteak and fries was $6 at the base, and the only maggots who ever skied there were Lumpy, BobMc, and me.

Go back to the mid 90’s when snowboarding wasn’t allowed.....there were maybe 20 people really skiing there that knew the mountain. Trade off patrol took forever to get anything open. Honeycomb wouldn’t open for days after a storm.

Point things always change the good old days of skiing are gone. Resorts have so much overhead now.....at least most of them do. Vail’s model has changed skiing forever. As a pass holder it is great having so many options not sure it is good for the industry though.

Shit the first bird pass I bought was for the 94/95 season.....it was $1,400 and now for about half that you can get an Epic or IKON.

[goldengatestinx]

it feels like that often happens on sunday afternoons at C.B. not sure why.

Sunday is typically a travel day.