Epic Pass Restrictions Effects on Crested Butte, Telluride and Beyond

[cmsummit]

On the Saturday of MLK weekend at Telluride, while there, I heard that there was a large influx of skiers and boarders due to the Epic pass. Apparently, they 'stopped selling tickets after 8k'. (Not sure what that means if the Epic pass is simply scanned at the lifts.) It was crowded but very manageable.

I heard yesterday that over the MLK weekend there was over 45 minute lift lines at Crested Butte and the town was 'over-packed' due to an 'I-70 corridor blackout of the Epic pass'.

One theory put forth was that Vail Resorts was weeding out the 'medium and low brow' skiers and boarders and 'sending them elsewhere' to make more room for their 'high brow' clientele with deep pockets.

Any truth to this or other theories as to how the string pullers at Epic, IKON, Mountain Collective, etc, passes can and will direct skiers and snowboarders to various areas in the future.

The dynamic seems to be changing.

I'm an Epic Local Pass holder and was at CB MLK weekend. The 45 minutes lift lines were on Friday after 3 days of snow totalling 22", so nearly every local in the Gunni Valley was out getting after it. Sure, there was also an influx of out-of-towners, but that wasn't the entire reason the mountain was a shitshow. When High Lift, NFL and East River (mechanical) aren't spinning first thing in the morning, it's going to create some big bottlenecks......particularly on a busier, holiday weekend day with fresh powder. High Lift opened around 10am (got 10th T up), with East River around 11am and NFL not until 2pm. Friday was definitely a clusterfuck, with delayed lift/terrain openings and everybody trying to get after it.

Saturday was quite manageable, IMO. High Lift, NFL and East River were all open first thing in the morning. I didn't wait at all on the first High Lift to 2 NFL laps. Did wait about 15 minutes on NFL for one lap about mid-morning......everything else that day was shorter. I caught the Teo Bowl rope drop and that was fantastic.....one of the best runs of the season to date. Sunday was pretty dead, IMO.

So while it's easy to point the finger at the Epic Pass holder influx for turning Friday into a shitshow, that absolutely wasn't the entire reason.....

Also, only Vail and Beaver Creek were blacked out along the I70 corridor that weekend and it was only on Saturday. Breck, Keystone and ABasin were still available to Epic Local Pass holders all weekend.

[doebedoe]

Bivvi in breck?

[old goat]

I blame fat skis.

[jhyatt]

No free beds when I need them... but thanks for the tip. (which is what the hooker said to the leper)
d

Bivvi in breck?

[toast2266]

The combination of the consolidation of ownership (i.e. Vail resorts buying up everything) combined with the newer trend of season passes that work at a lot of resorts (with and without blackout dates) means that there's a mountain of good data to be sorted through. I'd think it'll take a few years to get everything dialed in, but I'd bet Vail, etc. will get pretty good at controlling skiers' behavior and directing the crowds as they see fit. But I guess my question is whether they'll try to spread those crowds out evenly across their holdings, or if they'll load up certain areas with crowds and keep others as a more expensive, elite, less crowded experience.

And for whatever it's worth, we've been doing the mountain collective thing this year and contributing to the crowds. But our timing has been abysmal and we've hit pretty much everything on mediocre days, so the lift lines aren't my fault.

[Greenstateofmind]

This thread and others make me think there are two issues: Skier traffic and Road Traffic. At our local mountain, the connection between skier traffic and number of cars seems to have gone out of proportion.

Are more people driving solo? More tourists in rental cars? We have shuttles running everywhere. Yet, there is a constant stream of out-of-state plates between the parking lots and the housing areas.

[raisingarizona13]

It is a bit of both the cheap pass and the growth of desirable places to live factor.

In the case of Bozeman, we only have 2 major ski areas nearby so the choices are limited and both are starting to get crowded. Time to move to a different shithole town.

And the breeding.

[Alpinord]

.......So while it's easy to point the finger at the Epic Pass holder influx for turning Friday into a shitshow, that absolutely wasn't the entire reason.....

Also, only Vail and Beaver Creek were blacked out along the I70 corridor that weekend and it was only on Saturday. Breck, Keystone and ABasin were still available to Epic Local Pass holders all weekend.

Thanks for the reality check at CB, but the dynamic is evolving for sure.

Regarding, lost zombies standing and clogging in the middle of a lift line loading area and single lines, staring at personal devices, snowboarders messing with gear, etc, it seems to be a general 'lack of consideration for everyone else but me' trend that keeps on giving. This cluelessness/oblivious trend is not reserved to Epic Ski & IKON pass holders. It's an epidemic.

[Icelandoffpiste]

I went to CB on the Copper/Winter park pass the last 2-3 years over MLK and it was packed with ~45-min wait times. I don't think it's a new phenomenon this year. People from Denver use the long weekend to get away from I-70.

Skiing in Colorado is so fucked if you live in Denver and work M-F. Both times I've been up this year I-70 has closed and it's taken me 2-3 hours longer to get home via the 285 escape route.

I got a Mountain Collective pass this year (and A Basin to get some local skiing in). We did a road trip Big Sky -> Targhee -> Jackson Hole -> Sun Valley -> Alta -> Snowbird. Anyone saying Big Sky is crowded is out to lunch. I didn't wait in a line once there over the holiday season. Hopefully the Ikon doesn't F that up to bad. Was really impressed with how Big Sky felt affordable, uncrowded and untainted by the big corporate ski companies. We had ski-in / ski-out lodging for like $150/night. I can't even get a reservation at a shitty Silverthorne Super 8 for that. I definitely know where I'd be going if I had a family to pay for...

[Rideski]

This (non holiday) weekend should be a good test. Big south directed storm rolling in while lesser snow in central and northern mountains.

[EWG]

Thanks for the reality check at CB, but the dynamic is evolving for sure.

Regarding, lost zombies standing and clogging in the middle of a lift line loading area and single lines, staring at personal devices, snowboarders messing with gear, etc, it seems to be a general 'lack of consideration for everyone else but me' trend that keeps on giving. This cluelessness/oblivious trend is not reserved to Epic Ski & IKON pass holders. It's an epidemic.

I mentioned this before, but I'm starting to believe that we have more ski tourists and fewer skiers. Each year the resorts, equipment, electronics, etc make skiing an easier and a more posh experience. Think about Mary Jane 15 years ago. You pretty much needed to know where you were and what you were doing to get around, cause there was little signage, parking lots right off the slopes, a mini ticket office, etc. Now the lifts think for you, your phone tells you where you are and where you are going, there's gourmet food at the top of the lift, your rockered gear lets you ski better. If you fall alot your gear keeps you dry, even if it's kinda cheap. So the easy of entry is really available.

Now, since you don't have to be hardcore, and we are in a culture of "doing things to tell people we do things" - instagram, twitter, facebook, blog, photos or it didn't happen, phones, phones, phones - and it's easy to get up to the mountain and be comfortable in mind and body, people do it and document it. And they eventually become ok at it. But just ok.

And the folks that are really there to SKI become a smaller and smaller percentage of the overall user group. The more difficult the skiing the thinner the crowds get - except for really popular testing grounds where the Jongs hurl themselves down for bragging rights. As someone I ski with said last weekend when I was trying to figure out why there were so many intermediates flailing down a black run under a lift when there were so many other unpopulated runs - people ski what they see.

It's a fascinating trend. At WP, for example, i'm pretty good with it when lapping Eagle Wind with no one there even though the parking lot is full. I feel less wonderful about it trying to get up Pano in a crowd of 500 of my closest friends.

But I'm not sure where it all ends up.

[skaredshtles]

<snip>

But I'm not sure where it all ends up.

Death. It all ends with death.

[Alpinord]

But I'm not sure where it all ends up.

Apres ski, posting selfies on Facebook or Instagram.


Sent via iPhone
Slidewright.com

[EWG]

posting selfies on Facebook or Instagram.

Death. It all ends with death.

Aren't those both kinda the same thing?

[Telemarketeer]

Listening to you guys makes me wonder why anyone would ski in the first place. You all paint a pretty bleak picture of the situation. Meanwhile I’ll be headed to a few resorts on a vacation soon and not have to buy lift tix. It is pretty nice to not feel like you have to get your moneys worth because you paid $150 for a lift ticket. Maybe more people are treating it like this too. Go out, ski for a few hours, then head to town for happy hour early. Honestly my local resorts in Summit seem much less crowded this season. I think it is kinda nice. Long live Epic/Ikon!

[Telemarketeer]

And newsflash: MLK weekend is busy at ski resorts. WTF? Is this news to you people?

[skaredshtles]

Aren't those both kinda the same thing?

Pretty much. Now get off my lawn.

[skaredshtles]

Listening to you guys makes me wonder why anyone would ski in the first place. You all paint a pretty bleak picture of the situation.

We're trying.

You're not helping.

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

This season, there is a noticeable increase in Epic pass wielding front rangers coming here to Telluride. It used to be that we were fairly "insulated" from the front-range-shit-show due to our remoteness and high prices. But sure enough, there are tons more crappy skiers and a HUGE increase in snowboarders around here this year.
There goes the neighborhood... (so to speak)

[skaredshtles]

<snip> It used to be that we were fairly "insulated" from the front-range-shit-show

What - you gotta wait 45 seconds instead of 30 at the Plunge lift? Boo-fuckin'-hoo.

On a related note - is coverage good all the way down to town right now?

[muted]

Honestly my local resorts in Summit seem much less crowded this season. I think it is kinda nice. Long live Epic/Ikon!

This season, there is a noticeable increase in Epic pass wielding front rangers coming here to Telluride.

ULLR, you are reaping the benefits of pass migration, of course you think everything's rosy. You're not seeing the flip side of the equation.

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

What - you gotta wait 45 seconds instead of 30 at the Plunge lift? Boo-fuckin'-hoo.

On a related note - is coverage good all the way down to town right now?

Our snowfall for this season is about average, so skiing down to town is no problem.

[Telemarketeer]

ULLR, you are reaping the benefits of pass migration, of course you think everything's rosy. You're not seeing the flip side of the equation.

At least I’m not a whiny bitch about a slight increase in the amount of people at a sleepy resort in the San Juans full of rich fucks. OMG! There’s more snowboarders! You guys sound like some dumb old white guy in an old Warren Miller film.

[skaredshtles]

Our snowfall for this season is about average, so skiing down to town is no problem.

That's good to know. For the record - if I come down weekend after next I'll be paying full price, since I have no Epic Pass.

[elm744]

Went to Telluride over MLK from Denver. I have the Epic Pass and was actually surprised how few Epic Pass holders there were. You had to take the pass out for them to scan and I didn't see one other person on the lift lines with an epic pass. Rode the lift with mostly locals or people living within 2 hours, all who complained that it was most crowded they had ever seen it. To be fair, it was only crowded on Saturday and it had snowed a foot and then was a bluebird day. Sunday was empty.