Epic Pass Restrictions Effects on Crested Butte, Telluride and Beyond

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

STR's contribute a lot of money to the local community. Who do you think cleans them? The money isn't as easy as people think. Who do you think gets hired for remodels? Local contractors ya think? Most are paying local taxes and paying for permits now too.

But people just like to hate on them. Rather have a bunch of 2nd homeowners who only visit 2 weeks a year and spend very little money.

Definitely not hating. I am doing everything in my power to buy a rental property of my own and help a friend buy one that I can do the renovation/management on.

I guess you are totally right. A place occupied 4 months of the year brings in way more money than a place occupied 2-3 weeks a year.

[goldenboy]

Also, no incentive for "average" to "above average income" families to buy a ski condo anymore. Why limit yourself to one mountain/area when you can cheaply bounce around with an Ikon and Frontier flights and stay at Motel 6 and eat cheap "in town"?

You discount how many people crave "the known" over the unknown. If you own a place, you ski your favorite runs, hike your favorite trails, eat at your favorite restaurants, have your own "stuff" in the owner's closet, don't have to fly with your skis, etc etc. The average Griswald doesn't necessarily want to explore.

[goldenboy]

MLK weekend was weird in CB. The Saturday was crazy crowded, though probably pretty normal for a lot of front range resorts. Sunday and Monday- 5 minute liftlines, tops. Usually I don't even know that it's MLK, so I assume the Saturday craziness was due to Epic. However many people were in town, I'm sure it pales in comparison to any weekday from June 15- Aug 15. Summers are way busier here than winters ever will be.

The weird thing is that '96-'97 was CB's high water mark- almost 600k visits. Now it's more like 400k. And yet back then, the Red Lady chair was a slow triple, and East river was a double. Both are high speed quads now. But I really don't remember the lines back in the late 90's being that crazy.

If Vail is smart, they're going to change the flights to/from Gunnison. Pre 9-11, there were ~8 flights/ day to Denver, making connections pretty easy. Today there's just 1.

[ncskier]

I'm giving away my age here, but as a middle aged fart, didn't CB in like 95, 96 etc used to offer free skiing from opening until like Christmas. I could have sworn I had some ski bum friends from college who always took advantage of that.
I could also be wrong but I also remember individual passes for a single mountain being well over a a grand and that was over 20 years ago.

[Name Redacted]

I'm giving away my age here, but as a middle aged fart, didn't CB in like 95, 96 etc used to offer free skiing from opening until like Christmas. I could have sworn I had some ski bum friends from college who always took advantage of that.
I could also be wrong but I also remember individual passes for a single mountain being well over a a grand and that was over 20 years ago.

Yeah, I went for a few free weekends. They also had a lot of nude skiing on closing day, which I skipped.

[skaredshtles]

I'm giving away my age here, but as a middle aged fart, didn't CB in like 95, 96 etc used to offer free skiing from opening until like Christmas. I could have sworn I had some ski bum friends from college who always took advantage of that.
I could also be wrong but I also remember individual passes for a single mountain being well over a a grand and that was over 20 years ago.

All true. CB used to do early-free and late-free deals. I took advantage of a few...

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

Big Sky Gold passes are $1200+. Worth it if you ski 50+ days and don't want blackouts.

[summit]

If skier visits are flat, whence comes the crowds and lines?

Yes Vail Resorts is primarily interested in destination visitors who are in the top 5% income bracket for holidays. They'll take whoever will pay, but those people are most likely to engage each transaction opportunity with Vail and max out the possible spend at each transaction. EG they'll rent the demo package from the resort ski shop while paying top dollar for a VR managed condo yet still eating out at Vail owned or leased restaurants, buy a $20 burger on mountain for lunch and another $20 in beer, and put their kids in ski school, maybe privates, buy things in the resort village where Vail owns the stores or at least exacts a 10% resort charge from each transaction on top of rent, and they are more likely to pay for other Vail activities through the resorts like a sleigh ride or the special winemakers dinner associated with whatever weekend festival.

They don't really get excited about a season pass holding VRBO renter who will cook their own dinners, brown bag a lunch, and avoids even an apres beer in the base village. During peak weekends, these people are to be discouraged to make room for the above, so blackout dates apply.

[Name Redacted]

If skier visits are flat, whence comes the crowds and lines?

You know this one, it is the concentration of people at one resort over another.

There have always been lines. I remember standing in shitty lines at Vail 20+ years ago. Traffic sucked 20+ years ago, and I remember parking on the frontage road in Vail back then too.

[goldenboy]

I'm giving away my age here, but as a middle aged fart, didn't CB in like 95, 96 etc used to offer free skiing from opening until like Christmas. I could have sworn I had some ski bum friends from college who always took advantage of that.

Definitely played a part in that '96 season- lots of early season snow and all the Extremes were open by New Year's. But those 3 weeks didn't add up to 200k visits. Most years just had a few manmade runs and didn't result in that many people visiting...

[comish]

The blackout days on the IKON are definitely affecting Mammoth.

Christmas and MLK were remarkably quiet (b/c of the blackout days) while last weekend we had >17k people on the mtn on Saturday since it wasn't blacked out. Rumor has it 70 to 75% of the IKON passes sold were the base pass hence leading to some mellow days when everyone is blackout.

It will be interesting to see how the passes evolve in terms of pricing, blackout days, and tiers of passes like the base IKON v full IKON this year. Buster's chart is super interesting since all we hear about are how skier days are flat or declining. Sounds like they numbers of skiers is flat, but those that ski are skiing more often due to the cheap passes.

[Alpinord]

Border collies are named Epic & IKON. Sheep = Epic & IKON Pass Holders:

[TWINS]

Kirkwood is way more crowded. Or rather the parking lot fills up early. And the road back to my home is a slow crawl on Sundays when it used to be a quick and easy getaway.

It’s not the numbers alone that suck, but the drags cutting into lift lines and the fact that 90% of the new skiers/riders don’t know how to stay on a traverse or ski the fall line. The mountain can look like shit the day after a powder day on the open faces and bowls.

Spent Sunday through Thursday at Mammoth last week.
1st time I have ever noticed so many people not knowing how to load or where to go.
Actually mentioned it to my wife as the lifts kept getting stopped the whole week.
It was strange.
But happy that we have more people in town midweek.
The hill and businesses can use the extra cash

[snowaddict91]

Seems to be an uptick in people cluelessly wandering around Snowbird this year too. Apparently they think we need gondolas in LCC too and the tram sucks.

[Yukonrider]

Informal lift ride surveys have shown a lot more first timers up from Denver at CB. Not incredible amounts, but everyone seems to be asking what to do in town, and commenting that they really love the VRBO they're staying in. The holidays seemed to be ruled by the usual tourists though.
Its a personal thing, but I really wish CB had gone Ikon instead of Epic.


I like the rise of the mega pass. As someone who has the ability to travel, it makes it much more stomachable to pay the 900 dollars, and get access at places all over. I wouldn't pay for 9 $100 window tickets, but I would buy 1 $900 collective pass. Maybe its psychological. Not to mention that finding $100 window tickets these days is usually a fairy tale, but for arguments sake...

[Bunion 2020]

Rather have a bunch of 2nd homeowners who only visit 2 weeks a year and spend very little money.

If that was a question, my answer is yes.

[powdork]

In places like Tahoe and Kirkwood there aren't more locals. In fact the local population has been on the decline as home prices increase and go to the highest bidders from the bay area that keep them as second homes and rent them out short term. So in the past there may have been 8,000 homes with locals some of whom have kids that will ski on the weekends. An additional 2,000 homes half of which sat empty and half of which had vacationers. Now you have 5,000 homes with locals some of whom have kids that ski on weekends, and 5,000 homes 4,500 of which have vacationers and 500 of which sit empty. Plus 2,000 homes off the hill that workers live in but still have to travel up here. The net result is lots more people in town, and WAY more miles traveled on local roads.

[jhyatt]

So I am one of those New Englander Epic pass skiers clogging up your shit. I have a pass to my local mountain in NH but bought an epic pass after my sister invited me to crash at her fancy Beaver Creek condo for a week. After that I am staying another week in CO the week after (Feb 18-25) and am trying to decide what to do... won't have a car and am solo and it's $$$ out there. I was thinking Crested Butte but it's so expensive to stay there and I don't even know how to get there without a car.
If anyone has any ideas, let me know. I just started looking on the internet but it's overwhelming.
Budget is, of course, an issue.
Is the Crested Butte Hostel closed?

[skaredshtles]

So I am one of those New Englander Epic pass skiers clogging up your shit. I have a pass to my local mountain in NH but bought an epic pass after my sister invited me to crash at her fancy Beaver Creek condo for a week. I am staying in CO the week after (Feb 18-25) and am trying to decide what to do... won't have a car and am solo and it's $$$ out there. I was thinking Crested Butte but it's so expensive to stay there and I don't even know how to get there without a car.
If anyone has any ideas, let me know. I just started looking on the internet but it's overwhelming.
Budget is, of course, an issue.
Is the Crested Butte Hostel closed?

Ski Beaver Creek and Vail. Free bus (AFAIK, it's free in the valley). Crusty Butt will be a MAJOR PITA to get to. Even more so on a budget.

[jhyatt]

Yes I am figuring this out with my mad google skillz.
Looking at the Vail Bunkhouse right now. Oxymoron if there ever was one.

Ski Beaver Creek and Vail. Free bus (AFAIK, it's free in the valley). Crusty Butt will be a MAJOR PITA to get to. Even more so on a budget.

[skaredshtles]

Yes I am figuring this out with my mad google skillz.
Looking at the Vail Bunkhouse right now. Oxymoron if there ever was one.

Why would you do this if you have a condo in BC to stay in??

[jhyatt]

Why would you do this if you have a condo in BC to stay in??

Condo is week 1. Week 2 I am homeless and no car but have epic pass.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

[Jong Lafitte]

Why would you do this if you have a condo in BC to stay in??

Right. Are you looking for ways to NOT use the condo? Is she renting it to someone else for the nights? ^^ Ahhh, just saw your last post. I see, your dates listed 7 days so i figured you were here for one.

[skaredshtles]

Condo is week 1. Week 2 I am homeless and no car but have epic pass.

Gotcha. Post wasn't that clear to me...

Bad news: You're kind of fucked if you're really on a budget.

[Jong Lafitte]

Gotcha. Post wasn't that clear to me...

Bad news: You're kind of fucked if you're really on a budget.

To ski other places, there is the Bustang and the Greyhound from Vail to Frisco (or any number of shuttles). Once in Frisco, there is the bus service so you can go epic in Summit co. But yeah, it might be hard to find a room on a budget though I just don't know.