View Poll Results: Do you use leashes?

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41. You may not vote on this poll
  • No way, I'm good on the head whackers/avi anchors

    20 48.78%
  • Yes, not trying to lose my $1000 wood planks

    21 51.22%
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Results 26 to 50 of 60
  1. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    Rossland BC
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    I use the leashes that come with my G3 Ion LT bindings. I appreciate that theyíll prevent a runaway ski in various low velocity situations, but on the rare occasions (perhaps 5 times in as many years) Iíve ejected uncontrollably at regular backcountry skiing speeds, theyíve broken 100% of the time. Iíve also seen unsecured skis lost into crevasses and drop off ridges into unskiable valleys, so am not inclined to ski without either brakes or leashes.

  2. #27
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    Sep 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by kootenayskier View Post
    I use the leashes that come with my G3 Ion LT bindings. I appreciate that they’ll prevent a runaway ski in various low velocity situations, but on the rare occasions (perhaps 5 times in as many years) I’ve ejected uncontrollably at regular backcountry skiing speeds, they’ve broken 100% of the time. I’ve also seen unsecured skis lost into crevasses and drop off ridges into unskiable valleys, so am not inclined to ski without either brakes or leashes.
    How would you quantify "in various low velocity situations"?

  3. #28
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    Sep 2006
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    Rossland BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    How would you quantify "in various low velocity situations"?
    The occasional situations where Iíve experienced where leashes have been useful (or where they would have been) include:
    Starting to ski, but due to user error not having properly secured my boot in the binding, and so stepping out of a ski on the first turn.
    Awkwardly catching and releasing a ski while slowly navigating convoluted ridge-top wind-lips, krummholz, or rocks.
    Dropping off a cornice or serac from stand-still, but miscalculating and releasing forward.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    452
    Soo since the verdict on leashes vs no leashes is about 50/50 maybe the way to go is the breakaway leash? Can anyone confirm that the Dynafit leashes are breakaway? I didn't see anything online about them being breakaway.

    Because I'm cheap, anyone try using small zip-tie as a breakaway point? You can get them with 20 or 50 lb rated tensile strength which seems about right. Yeah, they might wear out and get beat-up quickly, but who cares, they cost like a cent.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Den/Baltimore
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    Soo since the verdict on leashes vs no leashes is about 50/50 maybe the way to go is the breakaway leash? Can anyone confirm that the Dynafit leashes are breakaway? I didn't see anything online about them being breakaway.

    Because I'm cheap, anyone try using small zip-tie as a breakaway point? You can get them with 20 or 50 lb rated tensile strength which seems about right. Yeah, they might wear out and get beat-up quickly, but who cares, they cost like a cent.
    Leashes are great in certain situations where brakes would do very little to stop the ski* ... but pow touring isn't one of them. If you're on any kind of heavier binding, I think brakes over leashes make sense.

    That said, I have leashes over brakes on all my skis for weight reasons. I like these leashes the best so far: https://skimo.co/atk-kevlar-leash 60 cm elongation, 70 kg breaking force, and weigh 17g. But I haven't taken a fall where my skis came off or been caught in an avalanche yet, though, so I have no idea if that is an appropriate breaking force. I used to have the B&D ones, but they were kind of annoyingly long and fiddle-y.

    *e.g, transitioning from skis on pack to skis on feet in steep terrain (after booting or rapping), when skiing slowly in consequential terrain where a brake would do nothing to stop the ski, etc. Mostly low-velocity situations in steep terrain, as was said above.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  6. #31
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    Dec 2003
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    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    Soo since the verdict
    The verdict is you're doing it wrong.

    You shouldn't be thinking of using leashes to avoid losing them while going up hill.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    642
    Another plug for B&D breakaway leashes. Best combination of safety and functionality I've found.

  8. #33
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    Nov 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    The verdict is you're doing it wrong.

    You shouldn't be thinking of using leashes to avoid losing them while going up hill.
    lol yeah

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    452
    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    No. Roll your ankle downhill to get the skin flat on the snow.
    If it's too icy for that get ski crampons or boot.
    Even if you are stomping your ski shouldn't release unless you are doing something else wrong. Toe sockets not cleared, toe sockets worn, binding not fully locked, tried to lock the binding but your boot wasn't in properly so it didn't actually lock, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    The verdict is you're doing it wrong.

    You shouldn't be thinking of using leashes to avoid losing them while going up hill.
    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    lol yeah
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    You're going to die.



    ^ No shit.

    If this is happening on a frequent basis you are doing something wrong. Either not clearing snow properly or not latching fully in walk mode.

    Since you're new I assume it isn't worn toe sockets... which It could possibly be.

    Don't the people you're touring with point out what you're doing incorrectly.
    I knew I wasn't that big of a dummy. Here's some people having the same issue: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...skinning/page2

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Your Mom's House
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    And you'll notice that people didn't exactly come out of the woodwork saying they have that problem. Just one other JONG.

    I know a lot of folks with Kingpins and not one of them (to my knowledge) has ever had a ski come off when sidehilling. I maintain that you're fucking something up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norseman View Post
    All ye punterz! Leave thine stupid heavy skis in the past, or at least in the resort category, for the age of lightweight pussy sticks is upon us! Behold! Keep up with the randocommandos on their carbon blades of shortness! Break thine tibias into spiral splinters with pintech extravagance!

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Maybe get rid of the Kingpins and try the Tecton instead? But yeah, I toured on Kingpins for a bit and never had that problem and don't know anyone else who did. The brakes not staying up and them exploding are well known issues. Toes releasing while locked? Not so much.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    I knew I wasn't that big of a dummy.
    Maybe all of us not having this problem are the ones doing it wrong... interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  13. #38
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    Mar 2011
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    Iíve never used kingpins, but all my dynafits have 2 up positions. If kingpin is the same, maybe op isnít fully pulling it into locked position?

  14. #39
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    Sep 2010
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    Good point. Many normal tech toes take several "clicks" before it gets to fully locked, including the Kingpin.

    I also recall reading a paper which said boot sockets are irreversibly scarred (and release easier than the expected release value) after a single forced release from a locked out tech toe.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Marquette MI
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    2,081
    Quote Originally Posted by t-the-east View Post
    I’ve never used kingpins, but all my dynafits have 2 up positions. If kingpin is the same, maybe op isn’t fully pulling it into locked position?
    I'm only admitting this so someone doesn't get hurt.

    I was touring with my Kingpins not fully locked, my ski came off twice, I brought them into the house thinking they MUST be broken, examination revealed my error.

    There are like 3 or even 4 clicks before they are FULLY locked and in that position they can't come unlocked by your boot even if you fall forward like an idiot, it actually takes a fair bit of force to get them there. If you bring the ski inside and clip your boot in you can examine the lever and see where it goes into fully locked mode.

    Disclaimer: First tech bindings, and I am an idiot.
    The whole human race is de evolving; it is due to birth control, smart people use birth control, and stupid people keep pooping out more stupid babies.

  16. #41
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    Nov 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Maybe all of us not having this problem are the ones doing it wrong... interesting.
    lol

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    470

    Leashes for AT, do you use them?

    As others have said I think itís highly likely you arenít fully locking the toes (or doing something else wrong). If I was releasing out of locked toes consistently I would never use them again. Hopefully you are only skiing very low consequence lines.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    5,549
    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    Can anyone confirm that the Dynafit leashes are breakaway? I didn't see anything online about them being breakaway.

    Quote Originally Posted by DolphinSki View Post
    From what I understand, Dynafit and B&D leashes will both breakaway with the force of an avalanche.
    B&D YES. They use a replaceable fuse and are designed to break in avy forces. 40# or 60# available.

    ...


    Dyanfit NO.

    I called them and had a long conversation. Dyanfit said they do not have a fuse, and are fixed leashes. Not designed to break. I also talked extensively with a major dynafit dealer in the US. They checked with Dynafit, and confirmed.

    ...

    So either the company who manufacturers Dynafit, ie. Dynafit, and a major and very technical touring retailer have no idea what they're talking about, or DolphinSki has some very special information.
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    the situation strikes me as WAY too much drama at this point

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    452
    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    Leashes are great in certain situations where brakes would do very little to stop the ski* ... but pow touring isn't one of them. If you're on any kind of heavier binding, I think brakes over leashes make sense.

    That said, I have leashes over brakes on all my skis for weight reasons. I like these leashes the best so far: https://skimo.co/atk-kevlar-leash 60 cm elongation, 70 kg breaking force, and weigh 17g. But I haven't taken a fall where my skis came off or been caught in an avalanche yet, though, so I have no idea if that is an appropriate breaking force. I used to have the B&D ones, but they were kind of annoyingly long and fiddle-y.

    *e.g, transitioning from skis on pack to skis on feet in steep terrain (after booting or rapping), when skiing slowly in consequential terrain where a brake would do nothing to stop the ski, etc. Mostly low-velocity situations in steep terrain, as was said above.
    70 kg (154 lb) breaking force? That'd be enough to hang some skiers by the boot, esp female skiers. 154 lb seems like it'd be plenty strong enough to come back and whack ya in the head or be an avi anchor

  20. #45
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    Dec 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    70 kg (154 lb) breaking force? That'd be enough to hang some skiers by the boot, esp female skiers. 154 lb seems like it'd be plenty strong enough to come back and whack ya in the head or be an avi anchor
    An appropriate breaking strength is where I get wrapped around the axle with this. Avy forces are obvoiusly brutal, but like SFB did, I sliced my noggin a few decades ago (prehistoric times when brakes were the hot new thing). Because of this, I've been real shy with my years long on/off leash experiment.

    ----

    To the poster who mentioned cable ties (zip ties are for closing up your loaf of bread), I've found they vary greatly in quality. Using them for their intended purpose (anchoring cables), I've had some where the teeth barely hold - breaking during tightening.

    Then, there's UV degradation to consider. If I were inclined to experiment with this, I'd get some which are specified for rooftop solar installations. Mouser Electronics has 'em.

    After you arrive at an appropriate strength, let all of us who don't wanna be crash test dummies how it works out.

    ... Thom

    Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  21. #46
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    Jan 2017
    Posts
    272
    I totally denied leashes, but since I lost my beloved Bibby and then digged 300sq meters of fresh pow and still never found it... I think I reconsidered them. At least for powder touring

  22. #47
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    Sep 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    70 kg (154 lb) breaking force? That'd be enough to hang some skiers by the boot, esp female skiers. 154 lb seems like it'd be plenty strong enough to come back and whack ya in the head or be an avi anchor
    well, it’s kind of a misnomer right, cuz force is measured in Newtons not kg. But I'm assuming they did a static test and it broke with 70 kg hanging off it = 686N. I’m sure one of our resident mechanical engineers -- which I guess I technically am, but don’t have much experience with tensile strength under dynamic loads -- could shed more light, but I don’t know offhand how much force or accelerations are typically experienced in any avy or fall situation. Do you?

    The hard part is you want the leash to have enough strength to withstand repeatedly dropping the ski in freefall (otherwise, what's the point of a leash?), but fail below the typical forces experience in an avy or released fall.

    If you're just pow touring, maybe you don't care so much about the leash being able to catch a ski in freefall, so a little cable tie would be fine?
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  23. #48
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    Dec 2003
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    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by brundo View Post
    That'd be enough to hang some skiers by the boot,
    There are instances of people hanging in crevasse falls by correctly locked tech toes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Washoe Valley
    Posts
    279
    I use leashes 100% in the BC and for me the reason is obvious, lose a ski in deep snow way back in you might die. So, IMO, brakes are a resort gimmick so maybe if you crash on firm snow your ski might stop before it kills someone. Personally, I have been in two situations were a member of my tour group ejected in deep snow and in one instance it took hours to find it. Both times impossible to hike out without skis.

    I use B&D leashes, you never have to take them off except at the TH. As far as Dynafit leashes, my wife likes them. We created a breakaway with rubber O rings attached at boot. What size O ring, you will figure that out.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gaperville, CO
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    4,062
    I use zipties as breakaway points. No idea if its effective or not. They don't have a particularly high breaking point, and I have popped one when I snow-snaked myself. Seems to works, I'm sure they degrade etc. But I'd rather have something that breaks away too easily than not easily enough.

    I've wanted to grab the leashes auvgeek mentioned -- but the ATK ones are never in stock.

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