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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    Western MT
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    From the other thread


    For more money ($130), you can get an actual functional 8oz bivy sack from Sierra Designs that has full zip for easier patient loading: https://www.campsaver.com/sierra-des...kaAhQ_EALw_wcB
    You lose the thermal reflection coating...
    The specs say 16oz.

    I carry the SOL escape bivvy which is a step up from the bivvy Adrenalated linked. It seems durable enough "for emergencies" and has a cheap waterproof/breathable fabric and is only 8.5oz. I wouldn't want to use it on a regular basis, but it just resides in my pack in case I have to unexpectedly bivouac. I should give it a test sometime now that I think about it, and I'm not sure it's any more durable than the cheaper versions, although the material is thicker.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Sonoma & Truckee
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    11,073
    The bothy 2 person is what I have. Itís crazy light. Never had to use it so far so canít say how it works but it seems durable.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Shuswap Highlands
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    2,351
    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    There are NO absolute contraindications for Epi. That means if the patient is suffering from anaphylaxis, give them the epi pen or they risk death. That is why we train medical lay persons to give it.

    BCMtnHound has listed relative contraindications, meaning you need to be able to justify the risk/benefit BY being more certain about anaphylaxis so you don't cause great harm by giving the medication "just to be safe." I'll add to his relative contraindications list: patients on MAOIs, narrow angle glaucoma, thyrotoxicosis, laboring patients, maybe Raynauds.
    Thanks for the clarification.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
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    6,013
    best emergency shelter for backcountry skiers?
    As said, Bothy's are the best emergency shelter. I you are talking more about patient extraction and things like that look at either a silnylon tarp or just get some reinforced plastic from my house. I have also torn up a bunch of emergency bivys. I kinda see them as a shitty solution to two different problems.

    Re: medicine I'm just saying don't pack a bunch of med without knowing what to do with them

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    9,300ft
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    Re: medicine I'm just saying don't pack a bunch of med without knowing what to do with them
    Indeed. Even OTC can be dangerous. Saw a patient who was in lithium toxicity after being given 800mg ibuprofen 3 times a day for 10 days for a sprained ankle on a wilderness trip (dehydration didn't help). Saw someone with kidney injury because they took tons of ibuprofen with their ace inhibitors. There is a reason they wouldn't let EMTs give advil or tylenol in most places (some places allow it for pediatric fever, only a few allow it for pain control) because you cannot cram pharmacology into a 140 hour class.

    The amount of pharmacological interactions healthcare providers have to know is astounding and we still have to use pharmacists, books and computers as a safety check. Polypharmacy is whack yo!
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    4,422
    the Rab bothy I got was only $60 iirc. havenít deployed it in anger but itís pretty light/packable too.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    here and there
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    14,868
    Quote Originally Posted by reckless toboggan View Post
    FIFY.
    Holey shit.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Squaw valley
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    2,573
    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Slight hijack - what is the best emergency shelter for backcountry skiers?
    I had one of these https://www.surviveoutdoorslonger.co...ncy-bivvy.html but the fabric is too light and tears easily on ski boots, and the taped edges came apart easily. It's basically the same as the standard $5 space blanket.
    Looking for something more durable, but still small enough and light enough to live full time in my pack.
    Thx
    Two large garbage bags. Very light and will work on a pinch.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Squaw valley
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    2,573
    So we are at 35 lbs so far in emergency gear.

    Slim first aid, tool kit and the warmest puffy you have. If you need it, think about waiting hours without moving, and you'll see why a thin ultralight will not suffice.

    Gloves, hat, shovel and LOTS of food. Realistically, if you break a leg, or bleed so hard, all you can do is hunker down. Warm puffy.


    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    9,300ft
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    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    So we are at 35 lbs so far in emergency gear.

    Slim first aid, tool kit and the warmest puffy you have. If you need it, think about waiting hours without moving, and you'll see why a thin ultralight will not suffice.

    Gloves, hat, shovel and LOTS of food. Realistically, if you break a leg, or bleed so hard, all you can do is hunker down. Warm puffy.


    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
    I always have these as well as my go-lite puff coat + survival bivy. Can bunker down reasonably well in a snow trench, use the pack for ground insulation, put tarp over the top.

    Name:  Black-Flight-Pants-2-angles-w-Gore-logo-475x600.png
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    12oz

    http://www.westernmountaineering.com.../flight-pants/

    They are also super comfy to wear when you are cold and weat at the car after a long tour or on a hut trip.

    Note the full leg zips, because you aren't reasonably pulling on puffy pants over a broken leg. Hell, even if my legs are fine, by the time you gotta hunker down, you don't want to be taking both ski boots off and on to put on insulation.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    12
    A square tarp that packs down small. Honestly you will be more happy building a quick snow shelter with your skis, tarp and snow on top than you will with an emergency bivy.

    Some jb weld and steel wool to reinsert a binding if necessary,Leatherman, bailing wire, multiple ski straps and duct tape. Firestarter stuff, whistle, Warm puffy and tasty treats just in case.

  12. #37
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    Dec 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    Slight hijack - what is the best emergency shelter for backcountry skiers?
    I had one of these https://www.surviveoutdoorslonger.co...ncy-bivvy.html but the fabric is too light and tears easily on ski boots, and the taped edges came apart easily. It's basically the same as the standard $5 space blanket.
    Looking for something more durable, but still small enough and light enough to live full time in my pack.
    Thx
    I carry one of these - BD Winter Bivy bag, 1 lb, Epic fabric - but it looks like it’s probably been discontinued.


    BD seems to have some Pieps ones that look sort of similar, but out of stock.
    And I guess that I just don't know

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    636
    Bothy bag. Excellent weight/utility ratio. As far as I can tell the lightest way for 2-4 folks to make it through a night. I had only used it for practice and the occasional tea break until two years ago- spent an unplanned night out on a glacier. The weather we were in would not have killed us, but, the next day we still had to contend with the terain that had benighted us. A wretched down climb on rotten snow over scree above a cliff. I was very happy to have had the bothy bag, It is standard kit for British instructor/guides.

    Spare battery and an Inreach. I was on the receiving end of a Spot message when nephew was involved in a critical incident. It sucked. Big fan of two way communication. Was recently skiing a stream bed, maybe two miles from the road when a party member landed flat, knee to chin, initially looking concussed. Despite being on moderate, accessible terrain, we had no cell signal. Had he not improved enough to ski out, help would have been delayed an extra hour, and we would have had to split up. The inreach in my pack would have been a huge help, had we needed assistance.

    First aid and repair stuff tailored a bit toward the region and level of remoteness. I sometimes carry enough to remount a binding.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    4,986
    Quote Originally Posted by SB View Post
    Holey shit.
    Say it, don't spray it.
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    the situation strikes me as WAY too much drama at this point

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Marquette MI
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    2,066
    Good answers. Took a few ideas and combined it for my own hybrid.

    Went with a reflective tarp recommended above:

    https://www.surviveoutdoorslonger.co...y-blanket.html

    Over a bothy, reasoning is I can use a tarp to haul someone out, or build a shelter, or wrap around a sled track to make it slide, or to cuddle up in in a trench. Bothy seems like it does only one thing, but would be much more beneficial if ever in a glacier scenario (where winds could get whipping, and leeward terrain isn't readily available.

    My amazon list ended up being:

    Vet wrap
    Gauze pads
    Steristrips
    Triangular bandage
    SWAT Tourniquet
    SOL tarp thing
    25 feet paracord
    Bailing wire
    SAM splint

    I'll add to that my lighters, fire starters, and space blanket (possibly useless but its tiny and light), misc cordage, gorilla tape, and headlamp and I think I'll have a decent enough kit for what I plan to be doing.

    I could probably ditch the tourniquet, but I take the same pack sledding, and I am terrified of someone getting a limb sucked into a track, plus stretchy rubber can have more than one use.

    Oh, and I'll be buying an inReach as soon as possible, in this day and age that seems like one of the more important survival tools one can carry.

    Thoughts?
    The whole human race is de evolving; it is due to birth control, smart people use birth control, and stupid people keep pooping out more stupid babies.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    11,686
    You can use your voile strap as a tourney.

    I'd add some quickclot and a bunch of gorilla tape.

    https://www.amazon.com/QuikClot-Adva.../dp/B07MLXWDT3

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    9,300ft
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    You can use your voile strap as a tourney.

    I'd add some quickclot and a bunch of gorilla tape.

    https://www.amazon.com/QuikClot-Adva.../dp/B07MLXWDT3
    You can get a voile strap around your thigh and cinch it down enough that you cant feel a distal pulse? (even if you can, its very skinny and likely to cause quite a lot of tissue damage although that is preferable to being dead)

    I recommend the Celox Rapid over the Quickclot.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Rossland BC
    Posts
    1,091
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    As said, Bothy's are the best emergency shelter. I you are talking more about patient extraction and things like that look at either a silnylon tarp or just get some reinforced plastic from my house. I have also torn up a bunch of emergency bivys. I kinda see them as a shitty solution to two different problems.

    Re: medicine I'm just saying don't pack a bunch of med without knowing what to do with them
    Iím not spending the night out unless someoneís injured, so for packaging up a patient I just carry the vapour barrier sleeping bag liner I already own, which is light (128gms) packable and functional for that application. Itíd likely get trashed, but obviously Iím hoping itíll never be used.

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    1,429
    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    Two large garbage bags. Very light and will work on a pinch.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
    That's a really good idea. The thick "contractor" bags are still really light and packable.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    2,837
    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    I recommend the Celox Rapid over the Quickclot.
    Why is that?

  21. #46
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    Oct 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    Why is that?
    Both products stop bleeding. Celox uses chitosan base that can be removed by irrigation with normal saline in surgery. Quickclot uses a mineral that must be cut away from tissue.
    I've also seen data on the Celox preventing rebleed during transport which is a real value added by using a hemostatic.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Driggs
    Posts
    72
    Quote Originally Posted by daught View Post
    That's a really good idea. The thick "contractor" bags are still really light and packable.
    Have spent the night in one of these, not pleasant, but I'm around to tell the tale.

    After that experience I'm always carrying one of those SOL emergency bivies. Haven't had to use it yet, but know a few folks who have spent several nights in them voluntarily adventure racing and say it's not too bad.

    Used to carry a more expensive BD bivy but I spent one night in it and sold it. It wasn't much better than a contractor trash bag, and it took up more space.

    Other than that, nothing real unique. Couple of things I focus on:

    Phone is really important for me, use Gaia for navigation, and the Backcountry SOS app for if things go south. So I always haul a portable battery bank and keep my phone warm. Have a big no-name battery that's supposed to be able to charge my phone 8 times fully. It's great to have that peace of mind.

    On the gear repair front: Bunch of zip ties, leatherman with interchangeable bits, JB weld, QC inserts, couple random nuts and bolts, skin wax, sewing kit. A crap ton of extra batteries. Had a few times where I've shown up at a trail head and my partners have needed new beacon batteries. Same goes for headlamps.

    Also recently started carrying a pair of Skeats, just in case I have a catastrophic skin failure, as well as the Pomoca emergency skin. That product is super freaking cool.

    The big thing where I feel like I'm putting myself out there is on the extra clothing front. Right now I've got a spare puffy, beanie, mittens, socks, base layer and buff. I feel fine on most tours with that, but for bigger days I'd really like to have a bigger puffy, and some insulated pants. Other alternative is just carry an elephant foot bag, which I may just end up doing instead.

    And then some time in the next few weeks I need to crank out the sewing machine and make a rescue sled. Wouldn't come out with me most of the time, but for big missions I'd like to have it.

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    5,566
    Quote Originally Posted by cydwhit View Post
    Also recently started carrying a pair of Skeats, just in case I have a catastrophic skin failure, as well as the Pomoca emergency skin. That product is super freaking cool.
    I've heard mixed reviews on Skeats. Any experience yet?

    And do you carry the Pomoca emergency glue spray?. It seems that a few extra Voile straps could replace both Skeats and the spray.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    cordova,AK
    Posts
    2,640
    everyone should carry what makes them comfortable. But really catastrophic skin failure is your fault and is easily avoidable. In my opinion a better use of the space and weight would be a couple of hot hands body warmers. From the skeat site appears the are made to work with skins
    interesting information about the chitosan thanks
    off your knees Louie

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    2,837
    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Both products stop bleeding. Celox uses chitosan base that can be removed by irrigation with normal saline in surgery. Quickclot uses a mineral that must be cut away from tissue.
    I've also seen data on the Celox preventing rebleed during transport which is a real value added by using a hemostatic.
    Thanks! I know it came up after SpokaneMike's extraction a few years ago, but I hadn't looked at this again lately. Time to place an order.

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