Live recovery with RECCO

**Hacksaw** · 01-25-2019, 11:39 AM

https://unofficialnetworks.com/2019/...ier/?fbclid=Iw

**F#*k you cat** · 01-25-2019, 12:05 PM

Wow. Buried 3.2 meters deep. And a live recovery. Mad props to the Swiss and the use of RECCO

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**Jong Lafitte** · 01-25-2019, 12:28 PM

props to the furkid, too!

**mall walker** · 01-25-2019, 01:42 PM

recovered alive after 40 min burial is more than a little lucky... happy to see this outcome for a change

**zartagen** · 01-25-2019, 01:58 PM

Not 40 minutes, he was buried 1 hour and 10 minutes! Headline fail by unofficial.

**garyfromterrace** · 01-27-2019, 08:01 PM

Cool, so guess I don't need a beacon after all.
Mammut pulse for sale,
whoops wrong thread.

**MakersTeleMark** · 01-27-2019, 08:13 PM

How is his survival even possible? Is it like when someone falls into an icy lake and their body shuts down?

That's a lot of weight too. I just don't get it. A magical mystery air pocket?

**reckless toboggan** · 01-27-2019, 08:16 PM

I always ski with avalanche bacon...it helps the rescue dogs find me faster.

**SkiLyft** · 01-27-2019, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by reckless toboggan

I always ski with avalanche bacon...it helps the rescue dogs find me faster.

Wait I thought it was to pick up more chicks at apres. Guess I’m doing it wrong.

That is incredible — Possibly longest survival of a victim after a complete burial?

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**Meadow Skipper** · 01-27-2019, 09:12 PM

I’ve only ever practiced with the Recco receiver, and never with a very deep target, so I’m pretty blown away by the strong work on the part of the rescue team. 3.2 meters down ffs!

**Name Redacted** · 01-27-2019, 09:50 PM

I'd say this rescue was more a function of the victim being able to live for 1:10 while buried than it is about the RECCO being that effective. Either way, glad for the positive outcome.

**Meadow Skipper** · 01-27-2019, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by shredgnar

I'd say this rescue was more a function of the victim being able to live for 1:10 while buried than it is about the RECCO being that effective. Either way, glad for the positive outcome.

Well, mad props for the guy being able to live under 10 feet of debris, but I still think it was strong work on the part of the rescue team. I’d be interested to try to pinpoint a 10 ft deep burial with a recco...for practice of course. Those things are harder to use than beacons IMO.

**Name Redacted** · 01-27-2019, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper

Well, mad props for the guy being able to live under 10 feet of debris, but I still think it was strong work on the part of the rescue team. I’d be interested to try to pinpoint a 10 ft deep burial with a recco...for practice of course. Those things are harder to use than beacons IMO.

Agreed, I've played with them a few times and never found them to be great at pin pointing. And a 10 ft deep burial would definitely want some accuracy to avoid moving more snow than needed.

**summit** · 01-28-2019, 03:25 AM

There are many documented cases of people living at 1hr plus burial. The chances are just low.

There are many documented cases of people living at 3m. The chances are just very low.

What has never been documented before is using a RECCO as the primary location method for a buried victim who survived.

So this survival is a testament to rapid deployment and competent use of the RECCO by the rescuers, good shoveling, and luck.

Originally Posted by shredgnar

Agreed, I've played with them a few times and never found them to be great at pin pointing. And a 10 ft deep burial would definitely want some accuracy to avoid moving more snow than needed.

I think they are great for pinpointing if you use the right technique. An expert trainer had to show me. It wasn't what I had learned in the past. Although I admit I haven't tried against a 3.2m target... but RECCO is so directional it should work well. I'll have to give a deep target a try.

**Meadow Skipper** · 01-28-2019, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by Summit

I think they are great for pinpointing if you use the right technique. An expert trainer had to show me. It wasn't what I had learned in the past. Although I admit I haven't tried against a 3.2m target... but RECCO is so directional it should work well. I'll have to give a deep target a try.

Manuel G taught me, so I guess I’ve got that going for me.

**summit** · 01-28-2019, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper

Manuel G taught me, so I guess I’ve got that going for me.

His instruction is always so memorable and high quality. While I have "rotate the beacon" in his voice stuck in my head, I'm now just imagining him yelling "rotate the RECCO! but only a LITTLE!"

Dale A taught me quite a bit about Recco.

**Meadow Skipper** · 01-28-2019, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Summit

Dale A taught me quite a bit about Recco.

That would be awesome! I’ve only ever talked with him on the phone.

**Meadow Skipper** · 01-28-2019, 08:40 AM

You know what? I bet some of the folks following this thread would enjoy the Silverton Mountain Medicine Symposium. I went last year, it was great!

I should PSA it, but here:
http://mtnmedsymposium.org

**Name Redacted** · 01-28-2019, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by Summit

What has never been documented before is using a RECCO as the primary location method for a buried victim who survived.

I thought that there had been live saves w/ RECCO in Europe before, just not the US, but I could be mistaken.

I'm not advocating against RECCO, but it will continue to be a body recovery tool, with a few lucky live saves that get a lot of press, and sells more RECCO tags and units. It really is just a matter of time before someone is saved by a RECCO in the US. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while but this will continue to be a statistical anomaly.

I do feel like a probe line or dog could have found the victim just as fast with the same amount of luck, but they throw all the resources at the accident and whatever works works. This time it ended up being the RECCO, so it will take the glory. I guess probes and dogs don't have the marketing team that RECCO does.

I wonder what the average time it takes for a RECCO to arrive on scene, and be put into use is. Obviously IB vs OB, even w/ a helicopter dangling one over the site, it ain't going to be in the 30 minute window very often. Seems like a stat that Summit would know.

**hafjell** · 01-28-2019, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper

You know what? I bet some of the folks following this thread would enjoy the Silverton Mountain Medicine Symposium. I went last year, it was great!

I should PSA it, but here:
http://mtnmedsymposium.org

This might deserve it's own thread.

**Alpinord** · 01-28-2019, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by F#*k You Cat

Wow. Buried 3.2 meters deep. And a live recovery. Mad props to the Swiss and the use of RECCO

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Glad to hear.

How likely would have the outcome been the same if the avy dog hadn’t narrowed the search area?

EDIT: I didn't notice shredgnar's post before mine. I'm also wondering the same. Seems like the take away from this is lots of people will get the wrong impression of their safety if they have a Recco with articles like this.

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Slidewright.com

**Foggy_Goggles** · 01-28-2019, 09:49 AM

Probably as good a place as any to throw in my $.02 about CRAD https://www.c-rad.org/about-us/about-c-rad/ and the the fact while companion rescue is still your best bet, this part of Colorado does now have a legitimate helicopter based avalanche response. To me, this puts a heightened value in establishing communications with 911.

**Meadow Skipper** · 01-28-2019, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by hafjell

This might deserve it's own thread.

Right. I’ll try to remember when the 2019 info is out. A friend of mine is the EMS director in Silverton so I get the info ASAP.

**Name Redacted** · 01-28-2019, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

Probably as good a place as any to throw in my $.02 about CRAD https://www.c-rad.org/about-us/about-c-rad/ and the the fact while companion rescue is still your best bet, this part of Colorado does not have a legitimate helicopter based avalanche response. To me, this puts a heightened value in establishing communications with 911.

So are you saying that C-RAD is not a legitimate helicopter based avalanche response? I don't get it. From what I know of the program, and having seen it in action a few times, I think it is pretty effective. I was even a burial victim in a mock scenario for them once. They also use RECCO, and have one they dangle from the heli.

But if your point is that it should be more professional, watch "The Horn" on Netflix and you'll see how it is done in Europe and decide for yourself which is better. For profit vs volunteer. It is interesting, that in the US, land of capitalism, our rescue forces are usually not for profit. Pretty badass that they fly around with paramedics and full on emergency docs rather than a few WEMT's.

**Foggy_Goggles** · 01-28-2019, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by shredgnar

So are you saying that C-RAD is not a legitimate helicopter based avalanche response? I don't get it. From what I know of the program, and having seen it in action a few times, I think it is pretty effective. I was even a burial victim in a mock scenario for them once. They also use RECCO, and have one they dangle from the heli.

But if your point is that it should be more professional, watch "The Horn" on Netflix and you'll see how it is done in Europe and decide for yourself which is better. For profit vs volunteer. It is interesting, that in the US, land of capitalism, our rescue forces are usually not for profit. Pretty badass that they fly around with paramedics and full on emergency docs rather than a few WEMT's.

That's a total fuck up by me let me edit.