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Thread: WWMD- Last Minute Euro Trip???
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01-27-2019, 01:31 AM #51Registered User
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So we have formulated a tentative plan. The way the forecast looks now, the west alps are going to get a heavy dose of snow (100+cm) next week, with this wave should start to clear the day we arrive, then a possible refresh (30cm) Wednesday 2/6. If this holds true heres what we are thinking
sat 2/2-drive Geneva to Tinges and ski a couple on piste hour if we can swing it
sun 2/3- guided at Vald'isere/Tignes
mon 2/4- unguided Vald'isere/Tignes - drive to Chamonix
tues 2/5- guided Chamonix
wed 2/6 guided Chamonix
thu 2/7-unguided Chamonix or Courmayeur or TBD
fri 2/8- guide day TBD
sat 2/9- back to geneva
Heres my thinking on locations. We are pretty committed to the western side, flight to geneva worked out better, the region seems to be favored by upcoming storm track, and we are very excited about the food.
Vald'isere/Tignes- While probably lacking in culture, this place seems to have amazing infrastructure with some larger terrain that can be easily accessed. It also has the best current base depths in the region. There is tree skiing potential if the storm sticks around, Sounds like a good place to start off. Ski with a guide one day, by ourselves the next.
Chamonix- I just want to go, I've always wanted to go. hopefully conditions are good and we will guide up for at least 2 days.
Courmayeur- Wife really wants to spend a day or two in Italy, looks to be some awesome terrain but they seem to be very low tide right now. 1/3 the base of valD.
La Graves- Still on my radar. The town, the lift, the terrain, the story all sound amazing, but I am worried about conditions, seems to be low on snow right now as well. It also adds a good amount of driving, not super concerned about this but is a factor. depending on what happens with forecast, we could pull the trigger and head south for the second 1/2 of trip. would guide up here as well.
Western Switzerland- Haven't read up enough yet, but this area might get hit pretty hard with the second wave of snow. and could round out the last two days of the trip.
let me know your thoughts.. probably want to book our first couple nights (2/2-2/4) of accommodations soon with it being this upcoming weekend. We will probably wait on the second 1/2 until this storm cranks up
Thanks for all the feedback!!
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01-27-2019, 01:37 AM #52
Why do you want to be guided that much? Get a map read the avi bulletin and that's it. It depends on how remote you want to go...
If you go to the big areas a book like:
https://www.amazon.de/Powderguide-Di.../dp/3936740720
If you have the money, guided is fun though.
Gesendet von meinem BLA-L29 mit TapatalkIt's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.
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01-27-2019, 01:57 AM #53Registered User
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My though here is that it is really going to improve our overall experience. Coming out of a large storm cycle, places I don't know, not a lot of days to get comfortable, with just the Mrs and not my other regular partners.... We both will feel more comfortable stepping up in terrain with someone selecting line, leading, rout finding, etc. It is a lot of money but we've saved and the other large expenses (flights, car, rooms) were/will be paid with points
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01-27-2019, 02:49 AM #54Registered User
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Ditch Tignes. If you want to ski on your first day, drive straight to Chamonix - it’s much quicker (and the roads will be busy on a Saturday afternoon as it’s transfer day). Do 2 days in Courmayeur (there’s already plenty of snow and there’ll be much more by the time you arrive). Do a day in Verbier (it’s the best ski resort in the world and you don’t need a guide to ski the itineraries). You can do all of that on a 6/7 day Mont Blanc unlimited pass
You should take a guide to do the Vallée Blanche (as people regularly fall in the crevasses). Ask him to do both the Vallée Blanche and noir (from the top of the Skyway in Courmayeur) in one day if you’re fit. And do the Grand Envers rather than standard route if you’re good skiers). You may also want a guide for the Hellbronner if you want to really explore it eg Marbrée. Get the same guide for both as they will be unwilling to do anything tasty without having seen your ski level. Leave these 2 days for later in your trip when you have your ski legs back (and you need visibility). Warm up on GM, Brevent/Flegere, le Tour etc. You really don’t need a guide there although there is some great additional terrain if you get one (like Col de Belvedere and down to Le Buet and the Le Tour/Vallorcine couloirs). Col du Passon is a great tour in that area but takes most of a day. I suspect you’ll love Chamonix. It’s a mythical place.
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01-27-2019, 05:53 AM #55
Like what Bob said, Val d'Isere/Tignes is a long way.
Like what Bob is thinking, but didn't emphasize, you really should consider Verbier if infrastructure is a priority. The lift system there is huDge and there's everything anyone could want from nice tree skiing across in Bruson and lots of harness required guided idiocy off Mt. Fort.
If Cham is really a priority, Verbier is a lot closer.
Some 1%ers I know that can live anywhere and have seasoned in Chamonix think that Verbier is better skiing. Plus with Grands Montets tram out, I wouldn't go to Cham.
Then again, I avoided the A list places and opted for the lesser known locales. The more well known resorts lose a lot of local vibe.
Close to Verbier there's Gstaad/G3000 and just around the corner is Grimentz/Zinal and the valley leading up there has a slew of places like Vercorin, St Luc/Chandolin and Nax where you will for sure get a better sense of local culture.
https://www.bergfex.com/grimentz-zinal/
https://www.bergfex.com/gstaad/
https://www.bergfex.com/funiluc/
Also, Les Marecottes is dinky, but interesting: https://www.bergfex.com/les-marecottes/panorama/
I don't know if the train from Martigny to Chamonix is running, but it's a beautiful roll,Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
>>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<
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01-27-2019, 06:15 AM #56
OP, good job pulling the trigger. Remember, there’s really no wrong way to do this. Also, remember, you think this is a trip of a lifetime, when in fact you’re about to become addicted. You will be back.
It’s fun to try to construct The Perfect itinerary, but less road travel and more relaxing in fewer towns is fun too. You will be tired. Lots of good advice from others above.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
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01-27-2019, 12:48 PM #57Registered User
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Bob and Buster,
Im going to take you advice here. As of this morning the forecast is still looking solid for Cham, Verbier and Courmayeur. Lots of snow coming with possible clear days early and late in our trip. We are going to commit to the Mont Blanc super pass and have booked our first 3 nights in Cham. The Grand Montes tram situation is a bummer, but as a couple first timers I think we will remain entertained. We will see how the week plays out but tues-wed at Verbir and thurs-friday in Courmayeur would be a sweet lineup. The driving seems manageable and Wifey is stoked to ski in three countries.
So as far as guides go, you guys have any recommendations on which company to ski with? Is this something I should lock down now or wait until we get into town as there seems to be a lot of options? Bob, I really like the idea of skiing with the same person for consecutive days. There looks to be a potential weather window for sun-mon (2/3-4) and we are committed to be being in Cham those days, so should probably line something up. We will probably explore Verbier on our own, and then hire a guide for two days in Courmayeur. Would it be possible to hire the same person to guide us in Cham then later in Courmayer? I see lots of benefits of 4 days with the same guide, but not sure how localized these guys are to the terrain and routes they work.
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01-27-2019, 01:03 PM #58
Not sure if Jeff is in Cham right now or not, but he often spends his winters there. https://www.jeffbanksmountainguide.com/
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01-27-2019, 01:50 PM #59Registered User
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01-27-2019, 01:55 PM #60Registered User
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I would guess that any decent Courmayeur guide would know Chamonix. I like the Italians and went up Mt Blanc with a guy called Marco Zaninetti a few years back and would recommend. Alternatively try PMing Peds who posts Cham TR’s on here and is based there. I’ve got a place in Verbier and it’s currently empty on Monday and Tuesday so may be able to help you out if that fits your itinerary.
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01-27-2019, 04:33 PM #61Registered User
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Regarding car rental, you can rent in GVA on the Swiss side or on the French side. In Switzerland, winter tires are mandatory in the winter, so the rental cars all come with them. Not necessarily so on the French side, and, if available, usually with an upcharge. So, take that into account when determining where to rent. To make sure you are getting a Swiss side rental, add the .ch ending, e.g., go to hertz.ch, not hertz.com.
Another tip is that you need insurance because your US auto insurance won't cover. They will try to sell you expensive CDW coverage. If you google around online, you can buy insurance from UK companies for much less than the CDW coverage you will be offered at the counter.
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01-27-2019, 05:05 PM #62
Truth! We rented from the French side because we were doing a one-way rental to a different French airport. Ended up with a 2wd Renault Duster with so-so all season tires; decided to roll the dice, and were fine, but snow tires would've been ideal for our itinerary. Nothing like pushing that thing up a small, slick rise to our place in Le Bois in the middle of the night!
Regarding insurance: a few premier credit cards have premier CDW coverage if you pay the rental with it. Most other decent cards have secondary CDW that will become primary abroad. None include liability, which may or may not be available through 3rd party purchasers.
Cham guide rec - Serge Obert from Compagnie des Guides de Chamonix.
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01-28-2019, 08:58 AM #63
Another angle: If you are planning on Verbier, Chamonix and Courmayeur, you don't need a car provided the Martigny to Cham line is open, which I think it is.
See https://www.sbb.ch/en/home.html. The train leaves from GVA airport and is super easy.
Buses run the tunnel between Cham and Cour. The train rides from Martigny to Cham as well as Martigny to Le Chable/Verbier are beautiful. Admittedly, one has to take a gondola from the train station at Le Chable up to Verbier proper.Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
>>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<
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01-28-2019, 09:18 AM #64Registered User
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There are tons of great options -- just make sure whoever it is has the IFMGA cert cuz it's illegal otherwise. Lots of sketchiness and people "guiding" under the table there, IME. I'll plug Tom Grant cuz he's a friend of a friend based out of Cham. https://tomgrant.guide/introductory-...ountain-skier/
"Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers
photos
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01-28-2019, 09:18 AM #65
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01-28-2019, 09:24 AM #66
If you have the coin, and being a first trip, going guided is a good thing. You will get to terrain you probably wouldn't otherwise access, plus a good guide knows the infrastructure besides just the lifts. It is possible to start in Cham, finish in Switzerland, and take a bus back. Good guides know these things and times they run, which may or may not be in the books. You can certainly ski great terrain without a guide, but especially with such a limited time frame, a guide can maximize your on snow time.
I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...iscariot
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01-29-2019, 01:02 AM #67Registered User
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IF you go guided - good. If not maybe consider this book for Cham: https://www.amazon.com/Chamonix-Pist.../dp/2910672107
You can get it everywhere in town e.g. the book-shop across the street from snells.
A lot of great info here as well (from guides, and they might help to find a guid through them, too): https://www.chamonix.com/office-de-h...492959,de.html
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01-29-2019, 06:28 AM #68
Your plan is strong. Keep us updated. A couple of things to consider.
Car - it is about 50 Euro return to drive though the Mont Blanc Tunnel. Parking can suck is Cham and Cour (what I know). Your guide may be willing to drive you. Shuttles, buses, trains and other transfer services are readily available.
Equipment - ask you potential guide/guide about equipment. My understanding is some provide harness/rope/etc. for crevassed itineraries, some don't.
Food, drink, lodging - there is a tremendous variety and price does not equal quality (specially in Cham) so ask.
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01-29-2019, 07:01 AM #69
One of my favorite places to eat in Cham is as at the epicurean shop on the main drag. The window is fun of cured meats and cheese. For 8 euros you getting a plate of meats, cheeses, bread, and a glass of wine. Be sure to go down to the wine cellar if you like wine.
I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...iscariot
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01-29-2019, 11:03 AM #70
Have fun! Jealous.
Verbier has amazing terrain, is huge as has been mentioned, and really good infrastructure, but our experience always was that it cost $$$ for lodging and food. Like 2x Cham or other places in France. This might be outdated, but I guarantee with the Swiss Franc it's a lot more. For a once in a lifetime trip, do it, just be prepared.
CDW comes with many credit cards. Check yours before you go so hopefully you can decline coverage. You don't need an SUV. Get a car or wagon and save a lot of $$$. I have stuffed 5 of us (3 kids) into a wagon many times. I bring webbing straps to strap the skis to the top. They look at me like I'm from Mars, but it saves a lot over the SUV. Euro's generally don't do SUV's so they are expensive (this is slowly changing)
Agreed on a Guide in Cham or La Grave if first time there and in the Alps in general. At least they will blow your mind if you get a good guide / small group with similar abilities. I think you can cruise around Verbier and the other unglaciated places (Tignes, Val d'Isere) easier without a guide (we never got one and went backside Mont Fort, backside Serre Chavalier in the spring, etc.). Get a book/map and try to have some plans as many of the more amazing descents are not readily obvious or need a tiny bit of planning / route finding.
Car can be useful in Cham if staying in town to get up to Grands Montets, but certainly not necessary. Tunnel was closed due to the fire the couple years we used to go so missed out on the Cour experience. One of my biggest regrets in Euro skiing as that looks awesome!
Have a blast and we expect a trip report!He who has the most fun wins!
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01-29-2019, 03:14 PM #71
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01-30-2019, 01:08 AM #72Registered User
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Stoke from Courmayeur - Skyway Monte Bianco yesterday. Don’t think you need to worry about the snow 😉
https://www.instagram.com/p/BtO2RiSg...d=l128cpy0jqpc
Verbier didn’t suck either...
https://www.instagram.com/p/BtN1-PdA...d=4y5mlgztr2tg
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01-30-2019, 07:32 AM #73
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01-30-2019, 10:48 AM #74Registered User
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01-30-2019, 11:26 AM #75
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