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  1. #26
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    Dec 2003
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    Seattle
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    33,546
    Just fucking go.

    Try and avoid flying in or out of the alps on a Saturday.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    483
    Awesome adivice here guys, and yes this is for sure a first world problem. To complicate it even more the NA forecasts are looking better and better.

    But to answer foggy’s first Question. Yes, at the core of this is the fact that I am leaning toward a more adventure/travel trip, especially if that aligns with great skiing conditions. Over the years, we’ve had awesome days all over the west. The allure of a Euro trip has always been there, and now the reality of it possibly going down makes it really hard to pass up. I can, and have been storm chasing to WY or UT over the weekends, and I’m lucky, the skiing in norther CO is quite good.

    So this leads me back to the question of where to go. Flights to Zürich, Geneva, and Munich are all doable and in the 500-750 range. We would arrive on sat 9/2 morning, could ski 7 days (Sunday-sat) then fly home Sunday getting back to the grind Monday morning. It’s a tight timeline but it’s what we’ve got to work with.

    Forecast looks best on the western side, so should probably focus efforts there???Cham and Verbier were originally on the top of the list just because that’s what I’ve been reading about, watching in movies, ect, the most over the past 20 years. The lure of La Grave has always been strong as well, for many of the same reasons. After searching around here (thanks to Buster et all, you’ve touched on this subject a ton over the years) those might not be the best places for us. Im open to checking out a couple different areas, but also know trying to jump around too much maybe a waste of time. The ability to build knowledge day to day on the same mountain is valuable.

    About us, I’d consider us very capable BC skiers by NA standards, we both have avalanche training and a lot of experience ,but we are not versed in glacier travel and crevasse rescue. We do have basic climbing/ canyneering skills. Wifey snowboards/splitboards, I ski. We have been touring a lot this season and are relatively fit. Ideally we’d want to ski a mix of resort based terrain mixing in some larger routes/tours if conditions allowed. We could probably swing a couple days of guided skiing but not 7.

    For the budget, I’d would now call it conservatively flexible. While we can’t blow it out of the water, I realize that We will be spending a good chuck of change if we pull the trigger. With our timeline, streamlining transportation is probably worth it. There seem to be reasonable accommodations out there, and we are cool with eating on the cheap when we can. Making as much of our own food as possible, and hitting up a nice dinner or two.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpcmoriarty View Post
    To complicate it even more the NA forecasts are looking better and better.
    Stop it. That should not be a consideration at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    865
    Based on what you’ve said, rent a car, base yourself in Chamonix, plan a day each in Verbier and Courmayeur (Hellbronner) and keep open the option of a guided day in La Grave if conditions allow. 3 different countries and the best lift served terrain on the planet.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    277
    Geneva.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    SW CO
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    5,588
    If you go to Cham, my advice is: set low expectations, brush up on crevasse rescue before going, don't rent a car, and stay somewhere that's walking distance to a bus stop.

    Cham is stupid easy logistically: DEN to GVA, ~1.5 hr bus transfer to Cham, free buses and trains (with the tourist pass) get you around the valley. But it can be somewhat hard, IMHO, to figure out what to ski especially it's not high pressure. Doubly so for someone not well-versed in glacier travel.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

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  7. #32
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    Sep 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpcmoriarty View Post
    we both have avalanche training and a lot of experience ,but we are not versed in glacier travel and crevasse rescue.
    Based on this, plus jet lag, plus first time in Europe, plus (obviously) first time in whichever area you pick, I'd avoid glaciated terrain entirely unless you're going to guide-up for the first half of the trip. There is so much great non-glaciated skiing that is seeing record snowfall in CH and AT, that forcing your way through dicey terrain in Cham doesn't seem necessary.
    If you rent an apartment for the week, you can load in groceries and eat every breakfast at home (time and money saving), pack lunch for longer tours, and still leave room for some late on-piste lunches and in-town dinners out in the restaurants. I wouldn't spend all the time and money to get to Europe and then try to economize by eating in every night. One of the main reasons to go to the Alps is the food is so much better than what you get in the States. Remember, in some countries/areas, it will be both better and less expensive. YMMV.
    (That said, apres at home with wine, beer, cheese and bread from the grocery store after skiing all day is pretty darn good.)

  8. #33
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    Sep 2010
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    SW CO
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    Based on this, plus jet lag, plus first time in Europe, plus (obviously) first time in whichever area you pick, I'd avoid glaciated terrain entirely unless you're going to guide-up for the first half of the trip. There is so much great non-glaciated skiing that is seeing record snowfall in CH and AT, that forcing your way through dicey terrain in Cham doesn't seem necessary.
    This. I don't have any specific recommendations here, seeing as the only place in Yurp I've skied is Cham, but maybe someone else can help you with ideas. I'd try to find somewhere with good infrastructure and vast non-glaciated terrain with tree skiing options for low viz days, minimal crowds, nice people/vibe, cheap lodging, etc. Cham is awesome but definitely a scene.
    Last edited by auvgeek; 01-25-2019 at 01:20 PM.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  9. #34
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    Jan 2005
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    cb, co
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    5,035
    No advice to add other than that we just booked a trip in late Feb. Flying to Munich, my buddy that lives in Garmisch and has winters (mostly) off will pick us up and we'll go wherever it looks good for a couple weeks. Hopefully the Dolomites since I've long wanted to go there, and Austria. I'd agree with others that have posted the Chamonix maybe isn't the easiest to figure out sans guide if you're only there for a few days, and that counts double if it's snowing. But it's the only place I've skied in Europe, so maybe it's that way in lots of places.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    865
    You’d probably want a guide for the VB, La Grave and potentially Hellbronner (and you definitely want to do all 3 if you have the chance/conditions) but there’s also loads of non glaciated terrain that you can explore yourselves, taking the usual precautions.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    1,203
    Val d'isere/ tignes sounds like a great option here. Minimal glaciers, great tree skiing, plenty of big terrain if it goes blue bird.
    https://www.chaletchardons.com/en/tignes-off-piste/

  12. #37
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    Oct 2009
    Posts
    865
    For Chamonix, Grands Montets you’ve got Herse and Bochard. Loads of terrain off both sides. You won’t be short of company. Brevent and Flegere, likewise. Le Tour/Vallorcine for a mellow day. Verbier you have all the famous itineraries off Attelas and Mont Gélé plus Mont Fort. Courmayeur, the Skyway up the Hellbronner is sensational. You could just follow the main routes which are safe enough in good viz although you are on a glacier. Get a guide if you want to explore further afield. Youla and Arp on the other side. Amazing food in Courmayeur. And La Grave, get a guide... and there are so many other options like Bruson or Les Houches on a snowy day. This is much more than most people would fit into 7 day trip but if you’re motivated it would be worth it...

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    277
    Is Grands Montets open again? I believe the second gondola had a fire.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    393
    If conditions about the same in France and Austria, I'd go to Austria. I think the resorts are slightly lower in Austria and will give you a bit more tree skiing options if snowing/cloudy. I did a few days at Val/Tignes a couple years ago, a fantastic resort. I don't know....for some reason I like St. Anton and the rest of the Arlberg better. Maybe the quaintness of the villages, terrain, expanse, Austrians are quite nice. I'd go in this region and add Ischgl and Serfaus/Fiis for a day each. Their infrastructure at those resorts is mind boggling. Detachable quads, six, eights - heated seats.....everywhere.

  15. #40
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    Nov 2002
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    8,715
    OK, so you are going. I'd focus on what the idea experience is for you.

    I'd say start with

    Rent a car? yes/no
    If no, base in one zone generally or move around a bit?
    What is the budget/desire to hire a guide?

    For me, I'm all about the giant terrain and the huge lifts so these are the places a focus on. You always need to have a storm skiing plan B however.

    Answer those questions and I'll go from there.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    Ventura Highway in the Sunshine
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    St. Anton is a great place to base, lots of options, but the food and wine isn't nearly as good as France or Italy. If the Dolomites pick up some of these storms, it is perfect place for you. Great lift options, and tons of them, great off-piste options, lift assisted or otherwise, no glaciers, good guide book for do it yourself, plus good guides as well. Last I heard, they were down on snow. The food and wine are exceptional, and affordable. Rooms were a bit more then St. Anton (down valley one town from St. Anton actually.)

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  17. #42
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    Oct 2003
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    Looking down
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    Quote Originally Posted by nortonwhis View Post
    Val d'isere/ tignes sounds like a great option here. Minimal glaciers, great tree skiing, plenty of big terrain if it goes blue bird.
    https://www.chaletchardons.com/en/tignes-off-piste/
    Know of a good guide? Be there in March. Val and Les Arcs, too.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    483
    Pulled the trigger on flights.....ITS ON!!!

    Flying into Geneva the morning of Sat 2/2, Leaving the the afternoon of 2/9. Ended up cutting a day off the back end because of work commitments but flights were even cheaper for these dates. Locked it in at $625 each and was able to use all chase points. This gives us 6 full ski days, 7 if we ski the day we arrive. Short trip but we are pumped!!!



    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    OK, so you are going. I'd focus on what the idea experience is for you.

    I'd say start with

    Rent a car? yes/no
    If no, base in one zone generally or move around a bit?
    What is the budget/desire to hire a guide?

    For me, I'm all about the giant terrain and the huge lifts so these are the places a focus on. You always need to have a storm skiing plan B however.

    Answer those questions and I'll go from there.

    I am pretty set on renting a car. Its a short window and we want the flexibility of easy transport. Its not super expensive, Im finding a small suv for 450$ for the week. And I like driving, Im thinking split the days up into 2 or 3 locations.

    We want to do some guided skiing for sure. Im seeing a lot of different prices based on group size and location, but we could probably swing 3 days, maybe 4. The allure of the big terrain is what I've always been infatuated with as well, but Im totally down for what the conditions dictates. Having storm skiing plans seems important. maybe base resort choices off how the weather sets up next week??

    Just starting to delve into reading about different options but Verbier, Cham, Courmayeur, Tignes, and La Graves all sound amazing! We still have a bunch of points to burn up on lodging and they seem to go further in Tignes and Courmayer. Im cool with waiting a few more days on booking rooms to get a more diald forecast.

    SO STOKED!!!!
    Last edited by jpcmoriarty; 01-25-2019 at 09:19 PM.

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    8,715
    Nice! I'm excited for you and I don't even know you. Your destination list and your mindset appear on point. A couple suggestions of things to focus on at this moment:

    a. make sure you car has snow tires and chains.

    b. cell you euro cell phone game dialed in

    c. think about getting the basic harness, rope, crampons, glacier travel kit dialed.

    d. try to get a study on localized conditions and find out what has been getting skied

    I think you guys are climbers so I'd ague that you have the capability to book learn the basics.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
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    Before
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    Briancon is a great base for a variety of places accessible by car within 30 minutes: La Grave, Serre Chevalier, the Milky Way (Montgenevre, Claviere, Sauze d'Oulx, Sestriere, San Sicario), Puy St. Vincent. Go a little further through the Frejus tunnel to access Trois Vallees, Val Frejus, Val Cenis and other resorts in the Maurienne valley.

    Bourg St. Maurice is another good base for Tignes/Val d'Isere, St. Foy, Les Arcs/Paradiski and La Rosiere/La Thuile. A cool hotel nearby is l'Auberge Sur La Montagne.

    (edit)
    If you can defer choosing a target, wait until a week before, check the weather forecasts and decide then. Earlier in the year, the East was getting the massive dumps like Austria and Eastern to Central Switzerland. This week it looks like France and West Switzerland are getting it. The upshot being that you might have a few places in Central or Eastern Switz in the list, like the Jungfrau, Engelberg, Andermatt/Disentis, Lenzerheide, St. Moritz (really) or Davos. Distances are small for those of us used to carving the great curving concrete ribbons of America.
    Last edited by Buster Highmen; 01-26-2019 at 07:05 AM.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
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  21. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    81
    Yep, if I were you I'd go straight to Serre Chevalier/ La Grave. Provided the current forecast comes through, conditions will be great there. It's got the best tree skiing in the alps in bad weather, and an experience like no other if you get a good weather window. Cheap, and you can also join guided groups from several options in La Grave for ~80 euros/per person/ day. A guide is a really good idea to get the best out of anywhere in the alps if you aren't staying long, and also obviously safer.

  22. #47
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    Oct 2003
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    The West ist the place to be the coming week I'd stay in the northern west as LA grave et AL. Don't have as much base, I think.

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    It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    221
    La Grave has a pretty decent base. It rained the night before the lift opened which took some of the snow away, but then what was left just fucking froze solid. So the coverage is pretty good. I was skiing there a few days last week, and I'm based in Monetier (Serre Chevalier) for the season, and even here where it is much lower, and there has been even less snow, the base is decent on North faces (LG is all North facing)

    With a few dumps it could be pretty epic

    EDIT: East definitely has much more base though! I had a few days in Valais area and it was like day and night compared to round here

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo View Post
    La Grave has a pretty decent base. It rained the night before the lift opened which took some of the snow away, but then what was left just fucking froze solid. So the coverage is pretty good. I was skiing there a few days last week, and I'm based in Monetier (Serre Chevalier) for the season, and even here where it is much lower, and there has been even less snow, the base is decent on North faces (LG is all North facing)

    With a few dumps it could be pretty epic

    EDIT: East definitely has much more base though! I had a few days in Valais area and it was like day and night compared to round here
    I think Valais is still in the west, seen alpwise

    Gesendet von meinem BLA-L29 mit Tapatalk
    It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.

  25. #50
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    Oct 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by subtle plague View Post
    I think Valais is still in the west, seen alpwise
    That's far far East in my mind

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