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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    I'd think anyplace where avalanche control is a part of normal ski operations is a place were people ought to seriously consider wearing a beacon. We're putting more lifts in to areas where the level of management is higher. It's something a lot of recreational skiers don't think about as a risk in lift served terrain, but should. Maybe denote higher risk, beacon recommended terrain on trail maps and lift corral signage better if we're not going to outright require showing the equipment before boarding those lifts??
    or just use the app.

    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Minor thread drift. How far away are we from a fairly effective smart phone app beacon? One that runs at the same time as Ski Trax type stuff would be pretty popular if it actually worked. Doesn't have to be super powerful, but better than a RECCO tag would be adequate for most in bounds steep terrain folks. I mean they can add frequencies to your smart phone that turn it in to a universal remote control or 2 way talkie and other non phone frequency things. A beacon frequency pulse seems possible, maybe need an antenna to connect to the headphone or usb jack?
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    or just use the app.
    Only if they can build one that works
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyk View Post
    Yeah, but I’ve lived other places too. Grew up in Washington and skied many years at Crystal.

    Tell me, what percentage of skiers do you think are wearing beacons inbounds at resorts (that are not also skiing side country)?
    It's funny you say that. Growing up in the midwest and now living in the east, I never thought about it. But this past weekend, I was a Crystal. There was a snow/rain/snow event on Friday. There were a few times in the bowls when I thought: I wouldn't mind having a beacon. I did not ski any of the side country.
    It makes perfect sense...until you think about it.

    No thanks. I'll stick with porn. - Benny

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Only if they can build one that works
    You volunteering to test it?

    I'm surprised by people who claim to never contemplate wearing a beacon in bounds, particularly people who ski at places with conspicuous avalanche mitigation programs. You all have a hell of a lot more confidence in ski patrollers than I do.
    Set my compass North, I got Winter in my blood.

  5. #130
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    It is silly to own a beacon and not wear it inbounds.
    It is also silly to say that someone needs to buy a beacon just to ski inbounds. People who don't have a beacon for touring will not know how to use/wear/maintain an expensive and sensitive piece of safety gear.

    Post control releases in open terrain is the raison d'etre du RECCO. (existensberättigande?)
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  6. #131
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    Growing up and learning to ski in the 70s and 80s I never considered the notion that a beacon would be useful inbounds. I skied Horseshoe Bowl on a really good day and had no idea I could have been at risk.. Now they've got 3X the amount of that level terrain easily accessible there. We also didn't have terrain parks open to anyone/everyone. Had to be on the freestyle team and only hitting the kickers under coache's supervision. Different times. Not necessarily more dangerous, better mitigation but also more trouble to get in to.

    I'd definitely invest in something decent if I skied that type of terrain nowadays.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    You volunteering to test it?

    I'm surprised by people who claim to never contemplate wearing a beacon in bounds, particularly people who ski at places with conspicuous avalanche mitigation programs. You all have a hell of a lot more confidence in ski patrollers than I do.
    I also used to not carry bear spray hiking. Knowing people who've been attacked and seriously injured convinced me to get some and carry it when we went to Yellowstone last year.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  8. #133
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    Regardless, had these folks been found even a minute or two sooner they may have survived. Sobering on the pro beacon side for sure..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  9. #134
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    Squaw patrol actively encourages people to wear beacons on deep days, both with signs and even on social media. I’d say it’s way more common than some seem to think.

  10. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    Squaw patrol actively encourages people to wear beacons on deep days, both with signs and even on social media. I’d say it’s way more common than some seem to think.
    It either happens at your resort or it doesn't. :shrug:

    I don't recall ever seeing official encouragement to wear a beacon inbounds, at any resort I have been to. Doesn't mean that there wasn't some sign somewhere, but the only inbounds signs I have ever seen that might have said so were at backcountry gates. Yes, it happens at some resorts, apparently, but it is certainly not common, at least in Colorado.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
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  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Only if they can build one that works
    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    You volunteering to test it?


    Despite all the information about avalanche beacons on BeaconReviews.com, when you really get down to it, avalanche transceivers do only two things:

    They transmit a beep.
    They help you find a beeping transceiver.
    By contrast, a "smart" phone can do, well, pretty much anything that involves data transmission and digital processing.

    So why can't my phone also serve as an avalanche beacon?

    First and foremost, although a phone's antenna can receive cell phone, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, and GPS frequencies, it can't transmit or receive on the 457 kHz avalanche transceiver frequency. The very long wave of this frequency allows it to penetrate snow without any signal loss, but it also makes it difficult to create antennas that are short enough to fit inside a phone.

    And since a cell phone can't transmit or receive on the existing avalanche transceiver frequency, any cell phone app that attempts to replace an avalanche transceiver will work only if everyone in your party has the same app. That's a problem. Another problem is that cell phone batteries don't last very long. Certainly nothing like the minimum of 200 hours transmitting followed by one hour of searching which is required for traditional transceivers.

    The next problem is using the touch screen with some combination of numb and trembling fingers in cold, wet, snowing, windy (or blindingly sunny) weather. It's difficult enough to place a phone call in this weather let alone use it as life-saving rescue gear.

    And even if you are willing to accept the above limitations, understand that neither of the currently available apps provide any directional or distance information—only signal strength. In other words, the apps can't tell you whether you should go left or right, only whether the victim's signal is getting stronger or weaker.

    Here's a look at a few apps that are currently available (we're hoping the list doesn't grow...)
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Conclusion
    Overall, these apps would make nice school projects, but they are woefully inadequate for their intended lifesaving roles. Also note that the SnoWhere Facebook page shows the last update on January 28, 2013 without any references to the iPhone 5 that was released in September 2012 or the iPhone 5C and 5S which were released in September 2013. Perhaps the only good news in all of this is that SnoWhere is no longer trying to market this app actively even though it remains available on the iTunes store. More grandly, despite concerns that legal liability will stifle innovation, clearly these developers are not afraid to market purported lifesaving products that are almost inherently incapable of saving any lives.
    there will not be an app that in anyway adequately functions in place of a beacon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  12. #137
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    Plenty of resorts lack terrain and conditions that merit a beacon.

    This unfortunate Kachina Peak incident certainly supports arguments to wear a beacon while riding lifts. Personally, I generally don't wear a beacon in bounds. Could probably count the number of times I have on one hand without using a thumb. (Maybe just using the thumb and no fingers? Memory fails me.) Sure, there are times when it's appropriate. Do lots of tours without a beacon as well. (Flame on.)

    Also, to play devil's advocate, here's a counter-argument. It's not difficult to imagine breaking a rib falling on hard snow while wearing a beacon (those things are hard). Seems unlikely but that might be more likely than the very rare incident being discussed in this thread. It wasn't even a powder day, was it? So it's not like it was one of the obvious days for wearing a beacon. I'm not going to start wearing a an inflatable suit in my car in case of a collision, nor will I wear a helmet with face protection in case of shrapnel due to faulty air bag deployment.

    Having ski-toured solo the majority of my ski days this year, the one day I had a partner we did both finally turn our beacons on before skiing. Neither of us wanted to chance being "that guy" even though we were both quite confident in our terrain selection.

    Not that there's anything wrong with wearing a beacon in bounds. But I'd hope the skiers who do wouldn't ski terrain traps in bounds more aggressively knowing the beacon's got their back. There were definitely days skiing the high T at Alpy pre padded seats where I probably should have worn one. Never have felt that way even on my best days at Taos. Just some thoughts. Hopefully there won't be any more large in bounds avalanches this season.

  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    Yes, it happens at some resorts, apparently, but it is certainly not common, at least in Colorado.
    I think that it is actually more common than people realize in CO. I can think of quite a few incidents that have happened over the years.

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sky_Shoe View Post
    Also, to play devil's advocate, here's a counter-argument. It's not difficult to imagine breaking a rib falling on hard snow while wearing a beacon (those things are hard). Seems unlikely but that might be more likely than the very rare incident being discussed in this thread.
    Ha! The one time I cracked a rib was when I fell with an average size p&s camera in my chest jacket pocket, like you described.

    To the best of my memory, I’ve only worn a beacon in-bounds when working. I carry one when I’m touring solo, mostly thinking I might run into someone I know and change my tour plans.
    And I guess that I just don't know

  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    You will recall there being signage at some spots inbounds recommending wearing a beacon then?

    Even though you apparently never considered doing so.
    Not back when I was living there (I left in 93). Not sure beacons had even been invented then? No one wore helmets, either.

  16. #141
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    As I said earlier in this thread I always wear a beacon in bounds when I think the conditions warrant. Question though, with everyone beeping inbounds how effective is it when the patrol go to searching with all the peripheral beacons still beeping? Honest question. The 3 rescues I have been involved in, twice searching, once the searched for, there was no one for miles so background beacons were not an issue.
    Samuel L. Jackson as Jules Winnfield: Oh, I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration?

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by teleee View Post
    As I said earlier in this thread I always wear a beacon in bounds when I think the conditions warrant. Question though, with everyone beeping inbounds how effective is it when the patrol go to searching with all the peripheral beacons still beeping? Honest question. The 3 rescues I have been involved in, twice searching, once the searched for, there was no one for miles so background beacons were not an issue.
    This was an issue with an inbounds burial at xtal a little while ago. Mostly I think because of where on the mountain it happened - buried skier was swept off a busy return to base area so down hill beeping traffic was constantly entering search area.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  18. #143
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    There is a difference between encouraging people to wear the beacons they have (and know how to use) while at the resort versus encouraging people who don't have beacons to go buy them to ski at a resort.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    I carry one when I’m touring solo, mostly thinking I might run into someone I know and change my tour plans.
    same; also here in Wasangeles, there are lots of other people around, and the idea that you may come across another party needing rescue is not particularly far-fetched (it has happened at least a few times to my knowledge). doing at least a cursory beacon search when coming across a recent skier-triggered slide is not uncommon here.

  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by teleee View Post
    As I said earlier in this thread I always wear a beacon in bounds when I think the conditions warrant. Question though, with everyone beeping inbounds how effective is it when the patrol go to searching with all the peripheral beacons still beeping? Honest question. The 3 rescues I have been involved in, twice searching, once the searched for, there was no one for miles so background beacons were not an issue.
    We've had a few inbounds slides in recent years around Tahoe, both at Squaw and Kirkwood. And also nearby in Mammoth. In every scenario, patrol arrived to the scene and shouted to anyone in the area to switch their beacons off or into search mode. If someone is more than 100 meters away it's not really going to interfere anyway, since most have a range of 50-70 meters tops.

  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    There is a difference between encouraging people to wear the beacons they have (and know how to use) while at the resort versus encouraging people who don't have beacons to go buy them to ski at a resort.
    agree. and it seems like crazy talk. cost prohibitive. discourages and scares people from joining in on the fun. i want to bring more people into the sport, beyond those that are wealthy.

    the shit happens, but at fairly low frequencies. resorts and crews do their best. it's part of the inherent risk of being in snow country. it's easy to be complacent.

    off top of my head, here's some cali resorts with beginner, intermediate, or lodge in avi terrain: sugarbowl, squaw, alpine, sierra-at-tahoe, heavenly, kirkwood, and mammoth. remember the slide at alpine meadows in 1983? a friend that has been doing control work for almost 2 decades seems to have new stories every year about control work, e.g., getting a big HS than ran on a very old bed surface, where the area had been controlled and skied on and snowed on/loaded many times over several weeks prior to the bed surface/weak layer getting covered. remember the big HS release on Climax at mammoth in 2006 after the run was skied out. remember that full moon middle of the night avalanche at snowbird in 2005(?). the snow surface was a skied out mogul run, and the bed surface was a skied out mogul run...

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by mall walker View Post
    same; also here in Wasangeles, there are lots of other people around, and the idea that you may come across another party needing rescue is not particularly far-fetched (it has happened at least a few times to my knowledge). doing at least a cursory beacon search when coming across a recent skier-triggered slide is not uncommon here.
    I always wear mine as well soloing in the Wasangeles for the same reasons and have once stumbled across a rescue in process (many moons ago). I am more concerned about mountains making a deal about wearing your beacon on the hill and the hordes who have no problem throwing down an extra $400 for a beacon to add to the cool factor of their vacation. Telling their friends how gnar they are and showing off the brand new beacon they don’t even know hot to switch over. I agree with Summit most people now on the mountain know how to use a beacon but in the future?
    Samuel L. Jackson as Jules Winnfield: Oh, I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration?

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by billyk View Post
    Not back when I was living there (I left in 93). Not sure beacons had even been invented then? No one wore helmets, either.

    There have been beacons around since about 1970. There is plenty of ski movie footage from the 1980's and early 1990's where shots of the liftline show signs strongly advising skiing with an avalanche beacon. 'Memba when they used to be able to shoot deep powder storm skiing segments in bounds?
    Set my compass North, I got Winter in my blood.

  24. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    encouraging people who don't have beacons to go buy them to ski at a resort.
    Isn't that exactly how it goes at Bridger? First beacon I purchased many years ago was specifically for a road trip to Jackson and Montana and I wanted to ski the ridge at Bridger when I was there.

  25. #150
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    Isn't that a purpose of a resort. To encourage you to buy shit.
    off your knees Louie

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