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  1. #76
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    ^^^ That is just starting to become available and there is a lot of expense involved but short answer is Yes.

  2. #77
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    Abasin was testing LIDAR
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not bunion View Post
    .

    At some point these types of incidents could cause the entire ski area forecasting programs to change their approach. That is a sorry state of affairs because when you look at the actual numbers, skiing in mitigated avalanche terrain is a lot safer than skiing green/blue trails.

    /rant
    This is kind of like saying you're actually safer driving 130 mph on a wide open highway than you are going 10 mph in a mall parking lot. It's probably true but in a very loaded way.. way more alert and aware and far fewer other people doing stupid things around you..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Abasin was testing LIDAR
    Seems like a no brainer. If I win the lottery Iím gonna fund a lidar project for as much of the bc as I can afford.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Abasin was testing LIDAR
    Yeah, saw that at CSAW a few years back. Pretty cool. IIRC they set it up aimed at the East wall and SG's maybe?

  6. #81
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    when skiing inbounds the goal is always to go out of bounds so pack and beacon are almost always with me and on.
    powdork.com - new and improved, with 20% more dork.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by powdork View Post
    when skiing inbounds the goal is always to go out of bounds so pack and beacon are almost always with me and on.
    Used to be like that here, till they made the side country inbounds. Sucks. But I'm wearing a beacon inbound from now on. Our local hill has had a few incidents over the years including a death inbounds from a slide.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by powdork View Post
    when skiing inbounds the goal is always to go out of bounds so pack and beacon are almost always with me and on.
    That’s a good policy, but Taos has closed boundaries.
    And I guess that I just don't know

  9. #84
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    Common theme developing here is that what used to be OB or side country is being converted to in bounds and lift served, Kachina is a prime example. If it's steep enough, it can break loose. So, makes sense to wear the beacon in those areas regardless of whether it's called in bounds or not. Any bets on when (not if) Highlands Bowl will be lift served??
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    This is kind of like saying you're actually safer driving 130 mph on a wide open highway than you are going 10 mph in a mall parking lot. It's probably true but in a very loaded way.. way more alert and aware and far fewer other people doing stupid things around you..
    Take it however you want, the number of deaths from in bounds avalanches VS tree strikes etc on groomed trails was my point.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Common theme developing here is that what used to be OB or side country is being converted to in bounds and lift served, Kachina is a prime example. If it's steep enough, it can break loose. So, makes sense to wear the beacon in those areas regardless of whether it's called in bounds or not. Any bets on when (not if) Highlands Bowl will be lift served??
    I’m not sure what you’re getting at here, but Kachina hasn’t been considered OB or side country for many, many years. It’s been inbounds and patrolled at least since the 80s, and probably the 70s, but I’m too lazy to look it up. It’s really not like Highlands bowl in that way.
    And I guess that I just don't know

  12. #87
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    Under the ďcanít hurtĒ category, I searched around to see if you can buy the RECCO transmitter stickers only == bunch of TGR threads from 06 07, and seem to be available in Europe, but not here?


    Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeRidges View Post
    Under the ďcanít hurtĒ category, I searched around to see if you can buy the RECCO transmitter stickers only == bunch of TGR threads from 06 07, and seem to be available in Europe, but not here?


    Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums
    Recovering Extremely Cold Corpses Occasionally
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeRidges View Post
    Under the “can’t hurt” category, I searched around to see if you can buy the RECCO transmitter stickers only == bunch of TGR threads from 06 07, and seem to be available in Europe, but not here?
    They aren't available because they want to make money by selling the rights to clothing companies. They do require a certain placement to be effective kinda. I think the only piece of gear that I have with one in it is my bike helmet, which is kinda weird.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredgnar View Post
    They aren't available because they want to make money by selling the rights to clothing companies. They do require a certain placement to be effective kinda. I think the only piece of gear that I have with one in it is my bike helmet, which is kinda weird.
    People also stuck them to skis.. which was particularly stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeRidges View Post
    Under the “can’t hurt” category, I searched around to see if you can buy the RECCO transmitter stickers only == bunch of TGR threads from 06 07, and seem to be available in Europe, but not here?


    Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums
    Heard someone say that the patrol will occasionally use their RECCO detectors to find a lost cell phone. Apparently, anything big and reflective can generate a hit, but not nearly as good as actual RECCO tags of course.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not bunion View Post
    Both sides of this are somewhat correct.

    Probably the most hazardous time to ski in bounds avalanche terrain is in the initial day to week that terrain is 1st opened and especially shortly after a significant loading event.

    In my experiences there is some pressure from the guests and management. When I was pushed by either I had the suspect habit of telling them to fuck off, probably why I worked at 5 different areas over 30+ years.

    Most of the pressure is internally from the patrol themselves.

    They are usually good at what they do and believe they can mitigate the hazards using the same methods that have worked in the past. Where that goes astray is that they are dealing with extremely short return periods and what may work for 5-10 or 20 years may not line up the same way twice for a snow safety directors entire career.

    Once terrain is open and heavily skied they can relax a bit and deal with new snow hazard rather than deeper instability.

    That is one of the reasons the Highlands bootpacking program has been as successful as it has so far. They get on the snow early and trample it to the point that it no longer resembles what naturally occurs. When I was managing the Headwaters terrain we were on it as soon as you could access it, it is too steep to effectively bootpack the entire area so we ski packed as much as possible and opened it to skiing as soon as people could safely navigate even though they would probably damage equipment.

    Every area and patrol has different comfort levels when it comes to dealing with their terrain. Not MMQBing but this incident can be attributed to a bunch of factors such as newer lift accessed terrain, patrol and management turnover, human factors and just plain bad luck.

    The Slushmans Chair was rarely open its 1st season and that terrain was managed carefully, as time on target has increased so has that comfort level. Bridger still manages all their avalanche terrain conservatively and that is their cultural way of doing things.

    At some point these types of incidents could cause the entire ski area forecasting programs to change their approach. That is a sorry state of affairs because when you look at the actual numbers, skiing in mitigated avalanche terrain is a lot safer than skiing green/blue trails.

    /rant
    good shit, thanks. I love that all us Frequent Skier Card skiers were essentially free ski packers as soon as the tram and Challenger were open. I KNEW it!!! Ha. It didn't really matter what we thought about ruining our skis though, we'd be at bridger all season as soon as it opened. Our complaint's didn't matter.

    Bridger is conservative, and I love that they are, snow lasts longer as things open slowly. Even in their conservatism, I'll point out, they made a mistake by opening the High-T late one record-breaking day. If they didn't Mike would be still alive. I don't hold any grudges, which even I'm surprised that I don't, I'm just making the point that it's impossible for Ski P to be perfect, day after day, decade after decade. Lots of respect to you all who try their best.

    Except the assholes, ha.

  18. #93
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    In-bounds slide at Taos? Kachina Peak

    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    Iím not sure what youíre getting at here, but Kachina hasnít been considered OB or side country for many, many years. Itís been inbounds and patrolled at least since the 80s, and probably the 70s, but Iím too lazy to look it up. Itís really not like Highlands bowl in that way.
    Iím just a jong that spent a winter living in seco, and working at looney tunes and skiing every day but yeah the only thing that has changed is now thereís a lift to access the k-chutes that slid. Perhaps patrolís sops have changed on kachina since the lift opened but it has been controlled as in bounds terrain for a long time. I remember skiing one of the k chutes with a crater in it ...

    I also remember conversations related to wearing transceivers when skiing out there and the general concensus was that dog treats in your ski pants were a better bet...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Generalstark; 01-19-2019 at 09:15 PM.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    I’m not sure what you’re getting at here, but Kachina hasn’t been considered OB or side country for many, many years. It’s been inbounds and patrolled at least since the 80s, and probably the 70s, but I’m too lazy to look it up. It’s really not like Highlands bowl in that way.
    Pretty sure Highlands Bowl is also inside of the boundary just like Kachina was before the lift was built there. My point is that they're building lifts in steeper, more difficult and higher avalanche risk terrain than they did last century. So, like Bridger, perhaps requiring proper gear should be the norm instead of the exception to ride the lifts to these higher risk zones.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredgnar View Post
    Used to be like that here, till they made the side country inbounds. Sucks. But I'm wearing a beacon inbound from now on. Our local hill has had a few incidents over the years including a death inbounds from a slide.
    same here
    .

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Pretty sure Highlands Bowl is also inside of the boundary just like Kachina was before the lift was built there. My point is that they're building lifts in steeper, more difficult and higher avalanche risk terrain than they did last century. So, like Bridger, perhaps requiring proper gear should be the norm instead of the exception to ride the lifts to these higher risk zones.
    Highlands bowl was completely closed/OB for like 13 years. Kachina has never been OB.
    https://aspenpeak-magazine.com/heedi...-highland-bowl
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspen_Highlands
    And I guess that I just don't know

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Pretty sure Highlands Bowl is also inside of the boundary just like Kachina was before the lift was built there. My point is that they're building lifts in steeper, more difficult and higher avalanche risk terrain than they did last century. So, like Bridger, perhaps requiring proper gear should be the norm instead of the exception to ride the lifts to these higher risk zones.
    In all honesty the beacon requirements at both Big Sky and BB are more of a weeding out barrier than for avalanche hazard. While I agree that more and more access to avalanche prone terrain seems to be in vogue these days if you look back over the past 20-30 years it has been going on at least that long. The Supreme lift at Alta was pretty rowdy terrain when it was 1st installed, same for the Challenger lift at BS (1988) and the Tram (1995).

    By requiring beacons you raise the question, "If your mitigation efforts are so good then why do you need the beacon? if you aren't confident in your ability then should that terrain be open?"

    And to add, the reports are that the rescue response had both victims out in under 30 minutes. That is a really fast response time to a chaotic event.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not bunion View Post
    And to add, the reports are that the rescue response had both victims out in under 30 minutes. That is a really fast response time to a chaotic event.
    The runout for that slide is no more than a couple hundred flattish feet from a patrol station at the top of lift 4, and there is a patrol station at the top of the Kachina lift, and unless itís storming the field of view for that spot is excellent, so the response time for 2-4 fully equipped trollers could hardly be shorter.
    And I guess that I just don't know

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    Pretty sure Highlands Bowl is also inside of the boundary just like Kachina was before the lift was built there. My point is that they're building lifts in steeper, more difficult and higher avalanche risk terrain than they did last century. So, like Bridger, perhaps requiring proper gear should be the norm instead of the exception to ride the lifts to these higher risk zones.
    We've been skiing high avi inbounds terrain for years. Kachina has always been inbounds hike-to terrain. Now is there pressure, real or perceived, to open it sooner with a lift? I think most likely not, but certainly a question by many.

    I rarely went to Kachina when the lifts were spinning. The steeper more fun terrain has way less vert. West Basin ftw.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    We've been skiing high avi inbounds terrain for years. Kachina has always been inbounds hike-to terrain. Now is there pressure, real or perceived, to open it sooner with a lift? I think most likely not, but certainly a question by many.

    I rarely went to Kachina when the lifts were spinning. The steeper more fun terrain has way less vert. West Basin ftw.
    I was there in 1998 but only for a day. I remember staring at it lusting.. thinking how great it looked. But, after skiing as much of the lift served terrain as I could before my legs were mush there was no way hahaha. That was definitely a go get it early when you're still fresh for the hike scenario. I did hit something to the right of Lift 2 probably Spitfire or Oster, something in the middle over there. Had to drop a large cornice to get in and there were decent leftovers there that day. Fun stuff and absolutely as steep as anything I've ever skied.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

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