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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Haxorland
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    Haven't thought about bindings for about 10 years. What's good these days?

    So I need to mount up my Praxis Lhasa pow's. Problem is I haven't paid attention to binding since SAC had Look/Rossi P14's on sale back in 2006 and I horded those like a mother. I think I had 9 pairs at my peak between the Mrs. and I. Fast forward 12 years and now the plastic on those guys is looking tired and these baby's deserve better than a (great) binding that has seen 3 other skis before.

    So what's new? Anything better for massive elastic travel than a new generation pivot? Did they mess with the toepiece? I'm not as rad as I used to be and I have large boots, so super extremeo DIN settings aren't necessary. 12-14 for a max is fine with me.
    I've concluded that DJSapp was never DJSapp, and Not DJSapp is also not DJSapp, so that means he's telling the truth now and he was lying before.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    SW CO
    Posts
    5,588
    Just get the metal P18 and forget about it for another decade.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Truckee
    Posts
    1,041
    Quote Originally Posted by DJSapp View Post
    So I need to mount up my Praxis Lhasa pow's. Problem is I haven't paid attention to binding since SAC had Look/Rossi P14's on sale back in 2006 and I horded those like a mother. I think I had 9 pairs at my peak between the Mrs. and I. Fast forward 12 years and now the plastic on those guys is looking tired and these baby's deserve better than a (great) binding that has seen 3 other skis before.

    So what's new? Anything better for massive elastic travel than a new generation pivot? Did they mess with the toepiece? I'm not as rad as I used to be and I have large boots, so super extremeo DIN settings aren't necessary. 12-14 for a max is fine with me.
    I just searched Google to no avail. What does large boot size have to do with din setting?

    Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    YetiMan
    Posts
    13,370
    Quote Originally Posted by markcjr View Post
    I just searched Google to no avail. What does large boot size have to do with din setting?

    Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk
    It's a leverage thing. Big foot = longer lever.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    202
    Sth2 13's (or 16's) can be found on the cheap, really the only clamp with comparable (toe) elasticity. Not much has changed. Solly or pivots you can't go wrong.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Sandy by the front
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    2,345
    Quote Originally Posted by KyleLanTheman View Post
    Sth2 13's (or 16's) can be found on the cheap, really the only clamp with comparable (toe) elasticity. Not much has changed. Solly or pivots you can't go wrong.
    ++, love this binding. Adjustable toe pressure and the forward pressure is so easy to get exactly right.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wasatch
    Posts
    7,243
    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    Just get the metal P18 and forget about it for another decade.
    Yep short answer for sure. They are super durable have great release and the short mount pattern maximizes ski flex. I like the slight added weight of metal toe in front to bust crud.
    I need to go to Utah.
    Utah?
    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we finally made it to Utah.....


    Thanks BCSAR and POWMOW Ski Patrol for rescues

    8, 17, 13, 18, 16, 18, 20, 19, 16, 24, 32, 35

    2021/2022 (13/15)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    6,645
    Quote Originally Posted by KyleLanTheman View Post
    Sth2 13's (or 16's) can be found on the cheap, really the only clamp with comparable (toe) elasticity. Not much has changed. Solly or pivots you can't go wrong.
    Kind of a misnomer on elasticity these days:

    Salomon STH

    • Elasticity – Toe: 52 mm
    • Elasticity – Heel: 16 mm

    Pivot:

    • Elasticity – Toe: 45 mm
    • Elasticity – Heel: 28 mm

    Look SPX:

    • Elasticity – Toe: 45 mm
    • Elasticity – Heel: 27 mm


    So it's a lot closer than it used to be.

    disclaimer: I know those Look numbers are current, but I think my STH numbers a a couple years old. I don't think they have changed, but I can't swear that's true...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Strong and Free
    Posts
    548
    Biggest changes I've noticed since 2006 are a much bigger and better performing selection of touring and hybrid touring/resort binding options, and the proliferation of different boot sole types: ISO 5355 (standard alpine), ISO 9523 (standard touring), Gripwalk, WTR (on its way out), various non-standard designs (mostly on lighter touring boots).

    If you don't care about touring or compatibility with boots other than 5355, then hard to go wrong with Pivots or STH2 as suggested above. If you do, that's when it gets complicated.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Haxorland
    Posts
    7,103
    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    It's a leverage thing. Big foot = longer lever.
    It's the other way around actually. Big foot = shorter lever for the ski on the boot = less clamping force required to stay in.

    The Look toes appear to be the same for the pivot and SPX. Is the heel really worth the premium?

    edit: thanks Truenorth. I'm mostly leading my 5 and 9 year old down the resort these days and hoping to sneak a run or two in while they're taking a break, so no need for they fancy stuff.
    I've concluded that DJSapp was never DJSapp, and Not DJSapp is also not DJSapp, so that means he's telling the truth now and he was lying before.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Strong and Free
    Posts
    548
    Many here will disagree, but after I've clicked in I personally can't tell the difference between the 12/13/14 DIN versions of Pivot, (S)PX, STH, Griffon, Attack, and probably others.
    Last edited by TrueNorth; 01-18-2019 at 11:56 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Couloirfornia
    Posts
    8,871
    ^^^ I have SPXs on a pair of Head Monsters that are my DD when there isn't much new snow. Only skied Pivots once or twice, but happy with the SPXs. I suspect you would be too. I have STH2 13s on a different pair of skis and like those as well. A bit different in terms of step-in force, more noticeable in deep snow, but other than that there isn't much that I notice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    panhandle locdog
    Posts
    7,836
    Markers still suck.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Haxorland
    Posts
    7,103
    That's probably true for most things these days. ~18 years ago I learned what 'Markering out' was on some M14's and went for a slide for life at kirkwood. I was on a traverse when it happened, trying to leave the area because the chutes we were checking weren't filled in.

    For me it's less about how it feels when clicked in, it's more about if and how they release. I wasn't a big fan of needing to adjust and check the S900/912/914/916 toes all the time, so I ended up with p12's and 14's.
    I've concluded that DJSapp was never DJSapp, and Not DJSapp is also not DJSapp, so that means he's telling the truth now and he was lying before.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    panhandle locdog
    Posts
    7,836
    I ski on 10 year old pivots but only the 15 and 18 din versions with the metal toes. But honestly I think if you aren't skiing that hard your current P14 are fine.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Haxorland
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier View Post
    I ski on 10 year old pivots but only the 15 and 18 din versions with the metal toes. But honestly I think if you aren't skiing that hard your current P14 are fine.
    So far I've killed two AFD's on the plastic toes. The age is showing and I want my praxis lhasa's to have something nice. The rest of my dirtbag quiver is another story.
    I've concluded that DJSapp was never DJSapp, and Not DJSapp is also not DJSapp, so that means he's telling the truth now and he was lying before.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    612
    +1 on STH2s, easy step in, easy forward pressure, consistent release, and if you ever get wtr or grip walk soles you're good to go

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    panhandle locdog
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJSapp View Post
    So far I've killed two AFD's on the plastic toes. The age is showing and I want my praxis lhasa's to have something nice. The rest of my dirtbag quiver is another story.
    Get new ones then, sell the old beaters on gear swap for some poor gear whore ski bum to buy up. #circleoflife

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    On the mountain
    Posts
    770
    Quote Originally Posted by Teenaged View Post
    +1 on STH2s, easy step in, easy forward pressure, consistent release, and if you ever get wtr or grip walk soles you're good to go

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

    +1 for STH2’s as well. Have ‘em on all our skis.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Lapping the pow with the GSA in the PNW
    Posts
    5,163
    When I used to ski park and huck the burly factor mattered. Now is ski mostly STH2’s (13-16) and Marker Demo’s (Griffons/Jesters). I avoid pivots because of the limited adjustability and brake width hassles.

    Honestly, the Markers and Salomons feel very similar on snow. Whenever I come out, it is mostly the heel and usually because I drop something too big and land on hard snow.

    Pivots are probably a superior binding for hard chargers but I’m past that time. There’s my two cents.
    In constant pursuit of the perfect slarve...

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Bay Area / Tahoe
    Posts
    2,474
    Pivot 18 is all metal and indestructible for the most part. I think it would last the longest.

    I had STH2, I pre-released them a number of times and had issues with the AFD height changing.

    I now only ski Tyrolia Attack 13/16 or Pivot 18. Both perform very well. Attacks are considerably lighter, have a low stack height, and large heel adjustment range for sharing skis with friends. Pivots have more heel elasticity, a bit of a better on-snow feel, but are heavier and have very little heel adjustment for sharing skis. Pivots are also a decent amount harder to step into after losing a ski in pow, whereas attacks are easy.

    Powder ski or sharing skis -> Attack
    All Mountain/Big Mountain, not sharing skis -> Pivot

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    YetiMan
    Posts
    13,370
    Quote Originally Posted by DJSapp View Post
    It's the other way around actually. Big foot = shorter lever
    Omfg. No.
    If your take were correct, DIN would go up for a larger foot. It goes down, because the further your toes are from your heel, the more leverage there is on your knee. This isn’t rocket science. How is somebody here arguing how DIN settings work? Is this alpinezone? Where is greg? Somebody fetch the applicable harold harble tutorial.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    SW CO
    Posts
    5,588
    Quote Originally Posted by DJSapp View Post
    The Look toes appear to be the same for the pivot and SPX. Is the heel really worth the premium?.
    Again, I’d get something with a metal toe and fixed afd (and no dinky toe-heel connector, like the SPX15/18). Set and forget. If they still make a PX18, that would be fine. So would the STH steel but they’re heavy, expensive, and rare.

    Or buy something plastic like the P14, SPX12, or STH16.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Haxorland
    Posts
    7,103
    Quote Originally Posted by flowing alpy View Post
    marker hate is overrated
    One near death experience due to a marker pre-release is enough for me, thanks.
    I've concluded that DJSapp was never DJSapp, and Not DJSapp is also not DJSapp, so that means he's telling the truth now and he was lying before.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    inpdx
    Posts
    20,200
    Deee-nafit

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