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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    Everyone except @swissiphic that is, with his double sided tape, that is ;-)

    ... Thom
    ...since u mentioned it...

    Thinking back, I'm still kinda shaking my head with incredulity that the tape system held up to the forces or kicking heels and torquing toes during the uphill touring on overnight refreeze crust, never mind staying attached during the downhillz.

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    Master of mediocrity.

  2. #152
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    Dec 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    ...since u mentioned it...

    Thinking back, I'm still kinda shaking my head with incredulity that the tape system held up to the forces or kicking heels and torquing toes during the uphill touring on overnight refreeze crust, never mind staying attached during the downhillz.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Did you use "standard" double sided tape or 3M VHB?

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    Did you use "standard" double sided tape or 3M VHB?

    ... Thom
    Good question...I'll have to check and report back.
    Master of mediocrity.

  4. #154
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    I doubt I'll ever do it, but if you were to report back that you used garden variety double sided, I might be tempted to bust out some VHB the next time I was in a mount conundrum.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  5. #155
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    Oct 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    Received Xenics today, the ratio of plastic to metal (almost none) is shocking, even compared to Vipecs. Have faith in Fritschi engineers though, fingers crossed.

    Happy to see the toe hole arrangement, looks like it will be pretty easy to make 4mm adapters to correct ramp AND use Vipec pattern inserts already in skis. Adapter plates made of carbon fiber sheet would be nice (countersink the underside of the plates for M6 flatheads, and use ground-to-shape nuts on top of toe piece), but dunno how they'd hold up. Wouldn't trust Chinese CF sheet from China, might call a domestic supply house and see what they recommend. Or just use aluminum with some "speed holes".
    I did the 4mm cutting board shim. 20g a piece. If you find a 3D printer or a skilled shim maker, I’d cover materials for us.
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  6. #156
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    Dec 2004
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    Simi Valley, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    I did the 4mm cutting board shim. 20g a piece. If you find a 3D printer or a skilled shim maker, I’d cover materials for us.
    Just a shim, or an adapter to attach to the Vipec pattern?

  7. #157
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    Oct 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    So Lou published his first (benchtop) take.

    He comes up with wildly different heel/toe deltas (in his linked page). I suspect he'll be remeasuring and correcting. His Vipec #s are within a half mm of what I measure. My money is on @LeeLau and @ spyderjon being the #s to go by.

    He has a good profile shot showing the lifter height.

    https://www.wildsnow.com/27135/frits...hnical-review/

    ... Thom
    Soooo...I havent really chimed in on the heights, but the Seattle Bird will confirm I mentioned to him, that I also get different heights than Jon et al. My measured pin heights are exactly in line with Lou.

    Granted, my methods dont measure to the pin, which IMO is not predictable and not consistent. I focus only on the delta from fixed points (not bottom of boot, which is subject to boot shape, but top of boot toe, and top of boot heel). What I found was, with the same pair of boots:

    4mm of toe shim brings the Xenic in line with the tecton
    2mm of toe shim brings the Xenic in line with the Vipec

    These match Lou's numbers exactly.

    Looking at the Xenic with a boot in it, it doesnt look crazy. I'll snap a pic tomorrow.
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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    Just a shim, or an adapter to attach to the Vipec pattern?
    I mean, both honestly. Ive already drilled for them both Xenix and Vipec, but I could fill holes.
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  9. #159
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    Dec 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    4mm of toe shim brings the Xenic in line with the tecton
    2mm of toe shim brings the Xenic in line with the Vipec.
    Thanks. Those are the numbers everyone's interested in. The differential from Vipec & Tecton.

    One reason I like using the pins as a reference is because it's boot independent.

    Measuring all 3 bindings with your boot obviously accomplishes the same thing for this instance.

    Of course, if I'm trying to cross correlate to a pair of Wardens and Attack ATs, I'll use the height from the toe and boot ledge to the ski. It's easier to reference than the fittings on the boot.

    [/nerding]

    ... Thom
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 11-14-2019 at 01:30 AM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  10. #160
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    Feb 2005
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    North Vancouver/Whistler
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    I reiterate time and time again that what matters is, for ramp angle, that what matters is Delta with boot in binding and that's because every boot is different due to there being no standard for toe and heel height for tech boots. But people want that pin height measurement so I give it.

    Haven't mounted Xenic yet to check against the fleet of boots

  11. #161
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    Nov 2013
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    845
    Well that's because you can extrapolate out from pin heights (even this BFA major can do that). Getting measurements off boots isn't helpful unless you have the exact same boot and size.
    TLDR; Ski faster. Quit breathing. Don't crash.

  12. #162
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    I can't speak for others, but it's because every boot is different that I'm interested in pin heights. I can translate it directly to both delta and stack height - having no interest in someone's boots that I may never use.

    Since my BSL isn't changing by any significant amount, I don't need ramp angle in degrees.

    Any BSL difference from a boot change will likely be swamped by so many design differences in the boot, that I might be starting over anyway - especially if I'm comparing what works for me in both a shorter Spring boot and my Zero Gs, for example.

    ... Thom
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 11-14-2019 at 04:16 PM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  13. #163
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    Jan 2019
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    Mid-tomahawk
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    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    I did the 4mm cutting board shim. 20g a piece. If you find a 3D printer or a skilled shim maker, Iíd cover materials for us.
    I've got access too a mill. If you're not in a hurry I can do it.

  14. #164
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    Oct 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAB View Post
    I've got access too a mill. If you're not in a hurry I can do it.
    You better believe it! Iím in a hurry nowhere lol


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  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    You better believe it! Iím in a hurry nowhere lol


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  16. #166
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    Mar 2006
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    Nottingham, UK
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    861
    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    So Lou published his first (benchtop) take.

    He comes up with wildly different heel/toe deltas (in his linked page). I suspect he'll be remeasuring and correcting. His Vipec #s are within a half mm of what I measure. My money is on @LeeLau and @ spyderjon being the #s to go by.

    He has a good profile shot showing the lifter height.

    https://www.wildsnow.com/27135/frits...hnical-review/

    ... Thom
    Lou's now corrected his measurements to match mine.

  17. #167
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    May 2018
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    NorCal
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    38
    Possibly Stupid idea but could work... The pic below is a swiss cheese ski in my possession (the bottoms look just as bad). The inserts are for vipec/tecton toes. If my reading comprehension is any good (that's a big if) the Xenic toe will fit inside of the vipec toe. Would I be insane to add another set of toes for the xenics here? They would mostly be used as a loaner ski for friends who would value the lighter weight. Basically looking for confirmation that the xenic probably won't get to close to the other plugged holes (anyone have the template handy yet?) or confirmation that my friends should get their own gear.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  18. #168
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    Nov 2009
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    CA
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    margotron - that looks awesome. well done.

    What did you use for the plate material, and where did you get it?

  19. #169
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    Oct 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    margotron - that looks awesome. well done.

    What did you use for the plate material, and where did you get it?
    @spyderJ - shoulda known your measures to be right. Theyíre ALWAYS right

    @mm - itís ďRTIC Cutting Board DividerĒ lol. 4.5mm. I sacrificed the divider from my cooler (like yeti) because the plastic is perfect composition. Not too soft, not too brittle.

    I hit em with some rattlecan and it all looks pretty decent. For $20 you can get the divider on amazon. Get the 65liter because itís the biggest. Prolly make shims for 4 sets of bindings.

    Gonna drive out to the beartooths next weekend and get a skin in. Canít wait.

    My thoughts on the xenic from the garage:

    1. Weight is right. Sub 300g w/o brake
    2. Plastic everywhere. Similar to tecton.
    3. SO easy to use. Front lever, stepping into, tower spin, riser flip. Love it.
    4. Single riser - idk. It bothers me on the Shift. It will probably bother me here. I do have the power now to dial in the height of the lone riser which is neat
    5. They donít feel cheap, they feel engineered. They do not feel bomber tho.
    6. They scream ďski meĒ like P18s do. Itís awesome.

    This is an experiment for me. I usually lean towards more features/options. Xenic is the opposite. Definitely a KISS binding

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  20. #170
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    Oct 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by davjr96 View Post
    Possibly Stupid idea but could work... The pic below is a swiss cheese ski in my possession (the bottoms look just as bad). The inserts are for vipec/tecton toes. If my reading comprehension is any good (that's a big if) the Xenic toe will fit inside of the vipec toe. Would I be insane to add another set of toes for the xenics here? They would mostly be used as a loaner ski for friends who would value the lighter weight. Basically looking for confirmation that the xenic probably won't get to close to the other plugged holes (anyone have the template handy yet?) or confirmation that my friends should get their own gear.

    Canít see the photo but I say drill.


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  21. #171
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    May 2018
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    NorCal
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    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    Can’t see the photo but I say drill.


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    Photo fixed. I really like that baseplate idea too and that would definitely solve my problem. I might give it a shot.

  22. #172
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    May 2018
    Location
    NorCal
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    38
    PSA: Bindings are currently $322 on the site that shall not be named, with 12% cashback on activejunky = ~$285. Pretty good deal depending on your moral stance in regards to trademark lawyers.

  23. #173
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    Mar 2017
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    SLC, Utah
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    82
    margotron - very well done on the toe riser.

    this is likely a very dumb question, but having never had to cut a plastic cutting board down to size, what tools did you use? i would love to replicate the same thing you did.

    ALTERNATIVELY, if there are mags out there that are handy with cutting things and shit, i would 100% pay for both the cutting board thingy and a nice bottle of whiskey if someone could help fabricate these guys.

  24. #174
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    Dec 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgapp View Post
    margotron - very well done on the toe riser.

    this is likely a very dumb question, but having never had to cut a plastic cutting board down to size, what tools did you use? i would love to replicate the same thing you did.

    ALTERNATIVELY, if there are mags out there that are handy with cutting things and shit, i would 100% pay for both the cutting board thingy and a nice bottle of whiskey if someone could help fabricate these guys.
    .Your best bet is to hook up with a local maggot who has the few necessary tools - bring beer and a sacrificial sanding belt of the right size, and get mentored. You'll be put to work. Trimming them to look tidy is thankless work. UHMW clogs up sanding belts.

    I use a jig saw with a fairly fine tooth blade, and a belt sander to clean things up l. Use a cleaning stick frequently, as the plastic quickly clogs the belt.

    For those who live in a decent size town, look up a plastic fabrication shop. Odds are that they'll let you rummage through their scrap bin for some free UHMW.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  25. #175
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    Oct 2014
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    1,270
    Yeah exactly. A jigsaw with a "clean" blade (cuts on the way up and down, makes cleaner cuts) and a belt sander were my tools. You can do without the belt sander but having one makes life easy. You can save yourself some cuts if you use the straight edge on the plastic. I took the xenic toe and traced it on the plastic, then clamped the plastic to my bench and sawed.

    ive made some real ghetto risers in the past. like gorilla tape on top of wax scrapers ghetto. Didnt even trim the scrapers, just used the whole rectangle.

    I say go for it! Use the whole sheet of plastic if you need. Itll be fun. Once you're done, you'll feel proud and accomplished whether theyre ugly or pretty. Not everyone is this way, but for me, and i think Thom, there's a feeling of pride and satisfaction when everything clicks and you're the one that made it come together.

    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    .Your best bet is to hook up with a local maggot who has the few necessary tools - bring beer and a sacrificial sanding belt of the right size, and get mentored. You'll be put to work. Trimming them to look tidy is thankless work. UHMW clogs up sanding belts.

    I use a jig saw with a fairly fine tooth blade, and a belt sander to clean things up l. Use a cleaning stick frequently, as the plastic quickly clogs the belt.

    For those who live in a decent size town, look up a plastic fabrication shop. Odds are that they'll let you rummage through their scrap bin for some free UHMW.

    ... Thom
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