Someone drained my one and only bank account

**east or bust** · 01-14-2019, 01:24 PM

looking for advice on what steps i should take now that i have $0 to my name

when i called my bank earlier they said i couldn’t file a fraudulent transaction until it had posted. this is obviously very problematic since the ghost withdrawal was for the full balance, effectively leaving me with $0 available balance. next paycheck isn’t until the 25th. wish i could research this more but at my first day with new job...

so i’m thinking i need to open an account with a new bank here and deposit into it with a credit card? do i need to hire a detective? fuck.

**gravitylover** · 01-14-2019, 01:29 PM

That sux. Around 2001 someone tapped my business account and drained it a few days before my annual sales tax payment was due so there was a lot of money in it. The bank graciously offered to cover that one payment but otherwise I was on my own until they figured out what went wrong. A few days later when the charges came through they were all from somewhere in Las Vegas and I was able to prove I was in NY. It still took almost a month to recover and put all inventory purchases and payments on hold as well as left me with no way to pay myself. It's a big pain in the ass when you have twin 2 year olds and can't take a check for a month

Good luck.

**skaredshtles** · 01-14-2019, 01:32 PM

This doesn't really help your current situation... but if you use a debit card, STOP USING IT. Use a credit card instead.

**Danno** · 01-14-2019, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by skaredshtles

This doesn't really help your current situation... but if you use a debit card, STOP USING IT. Use a credit card instead.

someone in here was arguing with me about how debit cards are just as good as a CC and there was no reason not to use them. It's shit like this that can happen when you use a debit card (not saying that is what happened here, but I do 100% agree with your post).

**Skidog** · 01-14-2019, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by skaredshtles

This doesn't really help your current situation... but if you use a debit card, STOP USING IT. Use a credit card instead.

my debit offers all the same protections as a CC. Chase has immediately replaced stolen funds (within hours). If they replace and find they werent supposed to? Trust me they'll get it back...

**skaredshtles** · 01-14-2019, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

someone in here was arguing with me about how debit cards are just as good as a CC and there was no reason not to use them. It's shit like this that can happen when you use a debit card (not saying that is what happened here, but I do 100% agree with your post).

Yeah - I'm not saying that's what happened here, but I'm pretty sure that debit cards are the *primary* vector for fraud cases like this.

**skaredshtles** · 01-14-2019, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Skidog

my debit offers all the same protections as a CC. Chase has immediately replaced stolen funds (within hours). If they replace and find they werent supposed to? Trust me they'll get it back...

Sounds like OP should have been banking with Chase.

**KenJongIll** · 01-14-2019, 01:41 PM

Man that sucks.
Can someone explain why a debit card is more vulnerable to this? We quit using credit cards , for the most part, a year ago. Not because we got into debt, but to just better keep track of where everything was going, and all in one place.

**skaredshtles** · 01-14-2019, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by KenJongIll

Man that sucks.
Can someone explain why a debit card is more vulnerable to this? We quit using credit cards , for the most part, a year ago. Not because we got into debt, but to just better keep track of where everything was going, and all in one place.

I don't think that debit cards are more vulnerable than CC's to their number being stolen... it's just that the consequences (in most cases) are WAY more dire.

If they steal your CC number, you notice the fraudulent charges, call up (or just submit online) a fraud claim, and they generally will take care of it.

If they steal your debit card number, your bank account gets drained, and if you don't notice (like you might for a few days/weeks) just imagine the fallout from that - overdrafts, etc. Way more of a headache.

**east or bust** · 01-14-2019, 01:43 PM

to clarify, i have a debit card but only use it for atm withdrawals. last time i used an ATM was almost 3 weeks ago.

eta: i have an email notice set for when my account drops below $100, and got that email today at like 4:50am. so at least i caught this quick, but still...

i called a different branch at lunch and they seem to be way more helpful than the first branch i contacted. are looking into now but i doubt there’s much they can actually do.

**adrenalated** · 01-14-2019, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by KenJongIll

Man that sucks.
Can someone explain why a debit card is more vulnerable to this? We quit using credit cards , for the most part, a year ago. Not because we got into debt, but to just better keep track of where everything was going, and all in one place.

It's not that they're more vulnerable, it's that when your credit card # gets stolen all they can do is wipe out your available credit - ie money that you don't actually have. If they get your debit card # they can clean out your bank account and steal all the money that you DO actually have. With the CC, usually you can get it resolved well before the bill comes due and never have to worry about having $0 to your name.

Edit: shitless beat me to it

**skaredshtles** · 01-14-2019, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by east or bust

to clarify, i have a debit card but only use it for atm withdrawals. last time i used an ATM was almost 3 weeks ago.

Do you use it for any online bill paying and/or purchases? I suspect that's the likeliest vector in this case...

**SkiLyft** · 01-14-2019, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by KenJongIll

Man that sucks.
Can someone explain why a debit card is more vulnerable to this? We quit using credit cards , for the most part, a year ago. Not because we got into debt, but to just better keep track of where everything was going, and all in one place.

Use a application like Mint. Keeps everything in one place. Then use your CC for all purchases to accrue points and safety.

As to why a CC is better? You have 30 days to dispute charges vs a situation like this where he has zero dollars to his name and if his bank refuses to reverse the charges he is hosed.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**Danno** · 01-14-2019, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by KenJongIll

Man that sucks.
Can someone explain why a debit card is more vulnerable to this? We quit using credit cards , for the most part, a year ago. Not because we got into debt, but to just better keep track of where everything was going, and all in one place.

Originally Posted by skaredshtles

I don't think that debit cards are more vulnerable than CC's to their number being stolen... it's just that the consequences (in most cases) are WAY more dire.

If they steal your CC number, you notice the fraudulent charges, call up (or just submit online) a fraud claim, and they generally will take care of it.

If they steal your debit card number, your bank account gets drained, and if you don't notice (like you might for a few days/weeks) just imagine the fallout from that - overdrafts, etc. Way more of a headache.

Mostly this. First, if you use a debit card as a debit card (ie enter a PIN) there are slightly less federal banking law protections (or at least there used to be, maybe things have changed). But even if you use a debit card as a CC, the idea is that fraudulent CC charges never get paid. You notice them before you have paid a cent towards them. Whereas when you discover fraud on your debit card, your bank account has been drained. Now ultimately, 6 months later, maybe the difference between DC/CC is net zero, but while your acct is empty, while checks may be bouncing, etc, it won't feel like a net zero difference.

Originally Posted by east or bust

to clarify, i have a debit card but only use it for atm withdrawals. last time i used an ATM was almost 3 weeks ago.

Gotcha. It could have been that ATM usage if they had a skimmer, but there's not much you can do about that, shit happens. Do you have a credit card that you can use in the interim?

**Skidog** · 01-14-2019, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by skaredshtles

I don't think that debit cards are more vulnerable than CC's to their number being stolen... it's just that the consequences (in most cases) are WAY more dire.

If they steal your CC number, you notice the fraudulent charges, call up (or just submit online) a fraud claim, and they generally will take care of it.

If they steal your debit card number, your bank account gets drained, and if you don't notice (like you might for a few days/weeks) just imagine the fallout from that - overdrafts, etc. Way more of a headache.

Chase caught the fraud on my card before even i did. Send a text..if you made these charges ignore, if not, please call...called and they fixed it.

Also have had instances where I filled up gas in NY then off to NJ or wherever and bought gas again, different car, and its been flagged by chase...again text message....

There is something to be said about the lending/family style offerings of in Credit Unions, but I prefer the power of the big banks, like chase, cause they have the ability to monitor and remedy faster. In my case even before I knew there was fraud.

**east or bust** · 01-14-2019, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by skaredshtles

Do you use it for any online bill paying and/or purchases? I suspect that's the likeliest vector in this case...

negative. only time i use it is for atm withdrawals, i pay bills online directly through my checking account. i do have a CC set up with the same bank but that seems to be unaffected.

KQ · 01-14-2019, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by KenJongIll

Man that sucks.
Can someone explain why a debit card is more vulnerable to this? We quit using credit cards , for the most part, a year ago. Not because we got into debt, but to just better keep track of where everything was going, and all in one place.

There are ways to use them that makes them safe. One thing I do is have a debit tied to a specific account that has a finite amount of money in it at any one time because there are times I need to use a debit. Have I had fraudulent charges on my debit? Yes but because of the limits I put on the account it doesn't sink my whole ship. BTW - I've had CC's used fraudulently and I've had my identity stolen the good old fashioned was by someone stealing mail.

Do a search online for "are debit cards safe?" and you get a lot of answers. Here's one on the positive side:

Why a Debit Card is Safer Than You Think

**skaredshtles** · 01-14-2019, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by east or bust

<snip> i pay bills online directly through my checking account.

Hmmm - possible vector? I've never personally heard of this method of fraud, but I suppose it's possible.

**Danno** · 01-14-2019, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Skidog

Chase caught the fraud on my card before even i did. Send a text..if you made these charges ignore, if not, please call...called and they fixed it.

Also have had instances where I filled up gas in NY then off to NJ or wherever and bought gas again, different car, and its been flagged by chase...again text message....

There is something to be said about the lending/family style offerings of in Credit Unions, but I prefer the power of the big banks, like chase, cause they have the ability to monitor and remedy faster. In my case even before I knew there was fraud.

They are good at catching fraud because ultimately, the loss is theirs to bear, not yours. So it is in their best interests to catch it really really early. And it's good that they do, because it does relieve you of the headache. But if they don't catch it, and it's a debit card, the headache will be yours.

**skaredshtles** · 01-14-2019, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by KQ

There are ways to use them that makes them safe. One thing I do is have a debit tied to a specific account that has a finite amount of money in it

That's a good point... these type of financial shenanigans can definitely provide an extra level of safety for your account.

**muted** · 01-14-2019, 02:08 PM

How the hell does that bank not know what transaction drained everything? That is crazy.

Sounds like they got your password and transferred money, right? Debit card info wouldn't pull the full balance of an account, I think you'd need more info than that.

KQ · 01-14-2019, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by muted

How the hell does that bank not know what transaction drained everything? That is crazy.

Sounds like they got your password and transferred money, right? Debit card info wouldn't pull the full balance of an account, I think you'd need more info than that.

The bank needs to wait for the transaction to go through (or not) before they can take action on it being fraudulent and a debit transaction can indeed drain the account if it exceeds the funds in the account. I'm thinking the OP probably is overdrawn. That is what happened with mine.

**east or bust** · 01-14-2019, 02:21 PM

clarification #2 - pending withdrawal is for exact amount that was in the account

**Skidog** · 01-14-2019, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

They are good at catching fraud because ultimately, the loss is theirs to bear, not yours. So it is in their best interests to catch it really really early. And it's good that they do, because it does relieve you of the headache. But if they don't catch it, and it's a debit card, the headache will be yours.

Just for the record, my account of fraud is on my debit card. Again, Chase put the money back in an available state within a couple hours of the fraud. If they find later in their investigation that it was NOT fraud they'll just take that money back out of your account. The big banks are much better at handling these type situations.

**muted** · 01-14-2019, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by KQ

The bank needs to wait for the transaction to go through (or not) before they can take action on it being fraudulent and a debit transaction can indeed drain the account if it exceeds the funds in the account. I'm thinking the OP probably is overdrawn. That is what happened with mine.

he mentions twice it was the exact amount, so that's not a purchase with a debit card. Still doesn't explain how the bank does not know what kind of transaction it is. Debit, wire, transfer, what?