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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    527
    Quote Originally Posted by NorCalNomad View Post
    ^^ re DWR coatings. Until some radical new chemistry comes along the death of long chain carbon DWR due to environmental concerns makes run of the mill DWR coatings now less durable.

    Think of it kinda like railroad ties. Those bad boys will last a long time because of the chemical process, but you certainly don't want them as your dinning table.
    Thanks for the insight on DWR, that makes sense -- sounds like a clammy jacket might actually be the right tradeoff.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    girdwood
    Posts
    416
    Bump. I've been using the L5 LT for the past month after receiving it as a gift. It's actually pretty amazing. Been using it to run and tour. Breaths better than my hoodini and actually keeps you dry. First touring shell I've been able to wear on the up without sweating out. It's also very comfortable. Only thing I don't like is that the fabric is kind of noisy.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Posts
    5,644
    Quote Originally Posted by STLHD View Post
    Bump. I've been using the L5 LT for the past month after receiving it as a gift. It's actually pretty amazing. Been using it to run and tour. Breaths better than my hoodini and actually keeps you dry. First touring shell I've been able to wear on the up without sweating out. It's also very comfortable. Only thing I don't like is that the fabric is kind of noisy.
    Ever used neoshell or Patagonia descentionist?

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Ventura Highway in the Sunshine
    Posts
    21,778
    The Houdini has actually pretty poor breathability. Great wind shell, though.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    WA
    Posts
    5,874
    I'm following this thread closely because as much as it makes my skin crawl to wear TNF clothing, they make full-coverage bibs in a short inseam length, so odds are good I'll be picking up a pair.

    Having a 28.5-29 inch inseam sucks if you're trying to buy shell pants. Most regular length ski pants in an appropriate waist size for me (medium) are long enough that I'm dragging inches of fabric on the ground, even in my ski boots.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    girdwood
    Posts
    416
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    Ever used neoshell or Patagonia descentionist?
    I had a mammut neoshell and the patagonia knifeblade (not neoshell, if I recall). Neither are apples to apples, of course, since this jacket is so light and the mammut was a ski specific, heavier model.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,007
    Quote Originally Posted by STLHD View Post
    Bump. I've been using the L5 LT for the past month after receiving it as a gift. It's actually pretty amazing. Been using it to run and tour. Breaths better than my hoodini and actually keeps you dry. First touring shell I've been able to wear on the up without sweating out. It's also very comfortable. Only thing I don't like is that the fabric is kind of noisy.
    STLHD, would you use the L5 LT for (West coast) resort skiing in bad storms? Like many in the thread I've been thinking about getting the Future Light as my next hardshell (replacing an old Beta AR, I think) and am looking at the L5 and the L5 LT. In this (https://wepowder.com/en/forum/topic/269270) review the author says he would not buy the LT because "it was too thin and at high speed things started to flap quite a bit". I have a solid softshell as my daily driver, but definitely curious about a FutureLight as a replacement hardshell.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Zurich, Switzerland
    Posts
    5,644
    Quote Originally Posted by STLHD View Post
    I had a mammut neoshell and the patagonia knifeblade (not neoshell, if I recall). Neither are apples to apples, of course, since this jacket is so light and the mammut was a ski specific, heavier model.
    So... Comparisons?

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    girdwood
    Posts
    416
    Like I said in my first post, this jacket is the best I’ve tried for combined breathability and water resistance. Only shell I’ve ever had that I can run/tour comfortably in. So better than the others I mentioned, with the recognized caveat that they were slightly different jackets.

    Re whether it would be a good resort shell, I think the L5 would be better. The LT is super light, and while it still blocks wind and keeps water out, it is not in and of itself warm. And because it is so light, it does flap a bit in the wind. I haven’t tried on any of the other models but have looked up the weights. My assumption is the burlier models would be more comfortable

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    SW, CO for now
    Posts
    598
    Have about 10 days in my FutureLight bibs. Easily the most breathable shell layer I've ever owned, but that isn't much of a surprise. They are extremely comfortable and have performed perfectly so far with 8 days of walking 2k+ vert and a couple storm days riding chairs around SW CO. I bought them thinking I'd be spending 80% of my days this season in the backcountry, but a recent change of work plans will have me spending most of January/Feb skiing everyday, inbounds, in the Wastach. I'm very curious to see how the hold up to harder abuse in less favorable conditions. Considering the price tag, I have high expectations. I will check back in on this thread once I've got more days in.

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    5,677
    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    Having a 28.5-29 inch inseam sucks if you're trying to buy shell pants. Most regular length ski pants in an appropriate waist size for me (medium) are long enough that I'm dragging inches of fabric on the ground, even in my ski boots.
    Preach it brother, I normally need a large waist so you can imagine the length. Hemming ski pants with zippers and gaiters sucks.

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sun Valley, ID
    Posts
    1,825
    Quote Originally Posted by ASmileyFace View Post
    Have about 10 days in my FutureLight bibs. Easily the most breathable shell layer I've ever owned, but that isn't much of a surprise. They are extremely comfortable and have performed perfectly so far with 8 days of walking 2k+ vert and a couple storm days riding chairs around SW CO. I bought them thinking I'd be spending 80% of my days this season in the backcountry, but a recent change of work plans will have me spending most of January/Feb skiing everyday, inbounds, in the Wastach. I'm very curious to see how the hold up to harder abuse in less favorable conditions. Considering the price tag, I have high expectations. I will check back in on this thread once I've got more days in.
    Which version?

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sun Valley, ID
    Posts
    1,825
    I know it’s been mentioned that OR Ascent shell is similar. Are they actually a very similar technology? The price differential is pretty huge as in skyward jacket and pants vs these north face offerings. Like 2x.

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    SW, CO for now
    Posts
    598
    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Which version?
    Purist version. Was tempted to drop the extra cash on the Brigandine version but couldn't justify the extra $100 for basically a couple more pockets.

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    65
    I picked up a pair of the FutureLight A-CAD bibs this season, mainly for inbounds use at Whistler. They replaced a pair of Arcteryx Stinger bibs that I bought 5 years and 20 lbs ago (the cut of the Stinger is not permissive in the midsection). For reference I'm about 5'8, 170lbs and have the A-CAD bibs in a medium. Stingers were a small.

    Impressions after about 10 days inbounds: the A-CAD cut and articulation are, for me, dialled. More of a relaxed freeride fit than the Stinger bib, you forget you're wearing them. The fabric is very noticeably softer and quieter than the relatively stiff/crinkly Gore-Tex Pro fabric on the Stingers. I haven't had any issues with the A-CAD face fabric wetting out, even after a couple of storm days. I don't know if it's the DWR or the very tight weave of the face fabric on the A-CADs, but they shed surface moisture very well. The Stingers had a tendency to wet out on the thighs while riding the lift during storms, and once the DWR fails the fabric feels pretty cold next to skin/base layer.

    Haven't toured in the A-CADs yet so can't really comment on breathability, but I've been comfortable in them from -12C to 0C with just a base layer top & bottom, R1 fleece and Snowdrifter jacket. The durability seems good so far, construction seems bomber and they still look brand new.

    A few negatives as well. The A-CADs are heavy (900+ grams in a medium). I don't really care about the weight of my bibs much, but some people might. They're also overbuilt (e.g. don't need 6 full-zip pockets on the front, waist belt also seems unnecessary). The way that the suspender tensioning system is designed, the excess length on the suspender strap is fed into the top left chest pocket through a slit in the top of the pocket. This is an awkward way to deal with the excess strap and renders the pocket non-waterproof. The internal gaiters have boot hooks that serve no useful purpose but often snag on ski socks when putting the bibs on (can cause small holes in the socks). Also, the interior of the thigh pockets seem to get pretty humid by the end of the day. I don't know if it's because of how well the fabric wicks moisture away from the skin, but anything you put in the pockets is going to get at least slightly damp after prolonged exertion - in my case, it was a packet of Halls that partially melted.

    Overall I'm very stoked, with the caveats above. Will update if I have more to add later in the season.

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    65
    Spoke too soon. Water started leaking through the membrane on the seat and thighs halfway into a storm day at Whistler. As much as I like other aspects of these bibs, that's a dealbreaker, so will try to return them.

  17. #67
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by Jongle View Post
    Spoke too soon. Water started leaking through the membrane on the seat and thighs halfway into a storm day at Whistler. As much as I like other aspects of these bibs, that's a dealbreaker, so will try to return them.
    Any idea how they failed? Does anything look wrong with the fabric? I was thinking that something like futurelight would be perfect for bibs or pants for touring/alpinism. Currently rocking stingers and I don't mind the fit. I would rather have a super breathable waterproof layer for the pants than the jacket because pants are much harder to take on/off or adjust breathability/wind resistance with zippers etc., and my pants actually come into contact with snow more than my top does. A breathable, completely waterproof but wind-permeable jacket isn't very useful for me, but bibs would be.

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by Lind3n View Post
    Any idea how they failed? Does anything look wrong with the fabric? I was thinking that something like futurelight would be perfect for bibs or pants for touring/alpinism. Currently rocking stingers and I don't mind the fit. I would rather have a super breathable waterproof layer for the pants than the jacket because pants are much harder to take on/off or adjust breathability/wind resistance with zippers etc., and my pants actually come into contact with snow more than my top does. A breathable, completely waterproof but wind-permeable jacket isn't very useful for me, but bibs would be.
    Nothing is visibly wrong with the fabric and it didn't look like the water leaked through the seams. I think the face fabric just got saturated with water, which then started leaking through the membrane. I agree with your thinking on the the value of waterproof and highly breathable bibs, but unfortunately (based on my limited experience) FutureLight may not be the answer, at least not in a PNW climate.

    EDIT: confirmed the above by saturating the face fabric with water and then pressing a dry paper towel against the interior fabric. The paper towel got wet.
    Last edited by Jongle; 01-01-2020 at 06:29 PM.

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,876
    Quote Originally Posted by Jongle View Post
    Nothing is visibly wrong with the fabric and it didn't look like the water leaked through the seams. I think the face fabric just got saturated with water, which then started leaking through the membrane. I agree with your thinking on the the value of waterproof and highly breathable bibs, but unfortunately (based on my limited experience) FutureLight may not be the answer, at least not in a PNW climate.

    EDIT: confirmed the above by saturating the face fabric with water and then pressing a dry paper towel against the interior fabric. The paper towel got wet.
    Can't recall accurately...but in a description of the fabric in a Blister podcast, I think it was stated there were different weights of fabric with differences in the waterproof/breathable ratio...i.e. heavier weight = more waterproof/less breathable...any clue what version your pants fabric is? In any case, dissappointing news. Also a pnw'er and was hoping that Futurelight would be a viable option to good old Goretex.
    Master of mediocrity.

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by swissiphic View Post
    Can't recall accurately...but in a description of the fabric in a Blister podcast, I think it was stated there were different weights of fabric with differences in the waterproof/breathable ratio...i.e. heavier weight = more waterproof/less breathable...any clue what version your pants fabric is? In any case, dissappointing news. Also a pnw'er and was hoping that Futurelight would be a viable option to good old Goretex.
    According to the North Face website the lower body is made from ''75D X 75D 162 G/M˛ FUTURELIGHT 3L, 100% Polyester With Brushed Tricot Backer And DWR Finish'. I'm not sure where that fits within the full range of different Futurelight weights.

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    7
    very satisfied with my bib (Cad model) with FutureLight.
    If i have to put fingers on a cons, i can say the wind is not rejected as my Haglofs GoreTex pant.

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,340
    this thread reads like a TNF ad

    we got a TLDR yet on the stuff?
    side hustle: datingbot.io

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Wasatch Back: 7000'
    Posts
    9,621
    To me, it seems like everyone is trying to re-invent the wheel. Simply stated, there are no better shells than the Alpha SV and the Sidewinder AR
    “A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.”
    ― Milton Friedman

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    this thread reads like a TNF ad

    we got a TLDR yet on the stuff?
    TLDR based on ~10-15 days in the A-CAD bib: the fabric is soft, burly and breathable but not waterproof enough to hold up in a PNW storm.
    Last edited by Jongle; 01-02-2020 at 12:59 PM.

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    400
    your just riding chairs right? if i was riding wet pnw chairs id have something waterproof on my butt. who needs expensive “waterproof” and extra extra breathable to sit their ass on a chair?

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