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  1. #76
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    Aug 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by TG View Post
    your just riding chairs right? if i was riding wet pnw chairs id have something waterproof on my butt. who needs expensive “waterproof” and extra extra breathable to sit their ass on a chair?
    Just chairs so far, conditions haven't been great for touring. Your detachable plastic skirt idea is a good one, do you use garbage bags or saran wrap?

  2. #77
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    Oct 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jongle View Post
    Just chairs so far, conditions haven't been great for touring. Your detachable plastic skirt idea is a good one, do you use garbage bags or saran wrap?
    Thanks for the info in here Jongle. Seems like a no go for Whistler/PNW resort riding and likely too heavy for touring specific gear.

  3. #78
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    Oct 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by nortonwhis View Post
    Thanks for the info in here Jongle. Seems like a no go for Whistler/PNW resort riding and likely too heavy for touring specific gear.
    Lots of people around here touring in the Alpine line of gear, not the freeride stuff; the base fabric is pretty damn light. CO peeps seem to love it in general, but I think the dry conditions favor the potential weakness of the fabric vs. standard Gore Pro, etc.

  4. #79
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    Aug 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by nortonwhis View Post
    Thanks for the info in here Jongle. Seems like a no go for Whistler/PNW resort riding and likely too heavy for touring specific gear.
    Yep, after another wet storm on Whistler today I can confirm that you will get damp if you wear FutureLight in these conditions, at least for the A-CAD bib.

    The weight isn't a big issue for me and I had planned to tour in them on storm days (prefer softshell pants for 90% of touring days).

  5. #80
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    Apr 2014
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    17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jongle View Post
    Yep, after another wet storm on Whistler today I can confirm that you will get damp if you wear FutureLight in these conditions, at least for the A-CAD bib.
    .
    Is water only penetrating the seat fabric when sitting on a wet chairlift? If not is the surface fabric wet out or still beading at the locations where water appears to be getting through the membrane?

  6. #81
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    Aug 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubb View Post
    Is water only penetrating the seat fabric when sitting on a wet chairlift? If not is the surface fabric wet out or still beading at the locations where water appears to be getting through the membrane?
    It's also soaking through on the thighs after a couple of hours riding wet chairlifts. I don't think this would be as big of an issue while touring, since the face fabric is very smooth and sheds snow well unless you're getting snowed on for an extended period of time while in a sitting position. The surface fabric wets out and stops beading water before the membrane fails.

  7. #82
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    Dec 2004
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    Trying to choose between the OR Interstellar and the Summit L5 LT for a lightweight touring shell, some stuff I read today suggests Ascentshell / Neoshell / Futurelight all have about the same WPB performance. The Interstellar is $150 cheaper and is probably easier-going when it comes to warranty claims, should it ever be necessary.

    A guy by the name of "Stephen Seeber" commented on a Wildsnow article and claims to have done some testing.

    I have done testing of Neoshell, AscentShell and Futurelight. All are electrospun PU membranes. There are two test numbers that matter for each: Hydrostatic head measures water resistance. MVTR measures vapor transmission.

    Here is what each does, respectively for HH and MVTR: Neoshell - 16170, 2940; AscentShell - 16170, 3060; FutureLight - 16416, 2780. All of these fabrics are very similar in performance. Now, consider Gore Pro and Gore Pro Shell. Gore Pro - 30000+, 2869, Gore Pro Shell - 30000+, 1800.

    <snip> Gore Pro Shell is pretty crappy. Gore Pro is a big improvement. Where Gore shines is in its water resistance. If you sit in a puddle with the the microspun garments, you may get a wet ass. If you do the same with Gore Pro, you won’t. I enjoyed Neoshell for many years. However, I had a lot of problems with leakage in my pants from sliding on snow. Now my pants are Gore Pro.
    Last edited by 1000-oaks; 01-26-2020 at 12:31 AM.

  8. #83
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    Dec 2009
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    Sun Valley, ID
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    Trying to choose between the OR Interstellar and the Summit L5 LT for a lightweight touring shell, some stuff I read today suggests Ascentshell / Neoshell / Futurelight all have about the same WPB performance. The Interstellar is $150 cheaper and is probably easier-going when it comes to warranty claims, should it ever be necessary.

    A guy by the name of "Stephen Seeber" commented on a Wildsnow article and claims to have done some testing.

    I have done testing of Neoshell, AscentShell and Futurelight. All are electrospun PU membranes. There are two test numbers that matter for each: Hydrostatic head measures water resistance. MVTR measures vapor transmission.

    Here is what each does, respectively for HH and MVTR: Neoshell - 16170, 2940; AscentShell - 16170, 3060; FutureLight - 16416, 2780. All of these fabrics are very similar in performance. Now, consider Gore Pro and Gore Pro Shell. Gore Pro - 30000+, 2869, Gore Pro Shell - 30000+, 1800.

    <snip> Gore Pro Shell is pretty crappy. Gore Pro is a big improvement. Where Gore shines is in its water resistance. If you sit in a puddle with the the microspun garments, you may get a wet ass. If you do the same with Gore Pro, you won’t. I enjoyed Neoshell for many years. However, I had a lot of problems with leakage in my pants from sliding on snow. Now my pants are Gore Pro.
    Yeah I read that and then bought the OR skyward pants. For pants I think the fabric feel does weigh in too.

  9. #84
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    Oct 2003
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    If those numbers are accurate, I don't see why anyone would buy anything other than Gore Pro, besides price.

    It's basically just as breathable as FutureLight/AscentShell/NeoShell, but it's actually waterproof too. Of course, there are multiple ways to measure "breathability" and I'm not sure if this test is the best at approximating "real world" conditions.
    Last edited by glademaster; 01-26-2020 at 08:04 AM.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    If those numbers are accurate, I don't see why anyone would buy anything other than Gore Pro, besides price.

    It's basically just as breathable as FutureLight/AscentShell/NeoShell, but it's actually waterproof too. Of course, there are multiple ways to measure "breathability" and I'm not sure if this test is the best at approximating "real world" conditions.
    Agree. But the price difference is significant. $250 vs $500 on the pants I bought.

    Also gore pro still has that crinkly feel. Which for touring pants I prefer not to have. Picky I know.

  11. #86
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    That's a fair point. I own a Skyward jacket and I agree that the fabric has a nicer feel than Gore-Tex Pro.

  12. #87
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    "Air permeability" is also a factor for this class of materials, and it appears Futurelight does this a little better than Neoshell and AscentShell, though all three are MUCH better than Gore Pro in terms of CFM. Of the three electrospun materials, looks like it comes down to evaluating the features of the garment vs cost more than the WPB performance.

    More from Stephen:
    https://backpackinglight.com/forums/...e-futurelight/
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/emgxodiuxo...uturelight.pdf

    My takeaway is the electrospun stuff is good for touring pants and jackets, and might be okay for an inbounds jacket depending on the climate in your area. Probably not a good idea for inbounds pants unless it's a sunny, dry day.

  13. #88
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    Yeah, I know some people are into that. I want my shells to be windproof. If I need to move some air through them, I'll open my vents and unzip my fly. To each their own. It's nice to there are a wide variety of weather-resistant/breathable fabrics on the market these days.

    I would be interested to see how Dermizax compares in these tests.

  14. #89
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    Dec 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    Yeah, I know some people are into that. I want my shells to be windproof. If I need to move some air through them, I'll open my vents and unzip my fly. To each their own. It's nice to there are a wide variety of weather-resistant/breathable fabrics on the market these days.

    I would be interested to see how Dermizax compares in these tests.
    Given the numbers I think it’s safe to say they are all windproof.

  15. #90
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    Sep 2009
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    N side, Terrace, BC
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    My experience with the fabric. I have the SUMMIT L5 LT FUTURELIGHT™ JACKET and the Purist FUTURELIGHT Bibs.

    The pants have been amazing, super breathable, light, comfie and have been tested in numerous storm days in +2cm/hour dumps at 0 to -5C. Riding chairs and touring. During lift days I'll wear a pretty sturdy pair of shorts over my underwear otherwise my ass will get wet. The pants do get moist on the outside, but generally repell the water/snow well. I re-waterproofed them after about 40 days with both nikwax cleaner and treatment. I ski a lot of trees because we get a lot of storms and they are holding up well to the occasional brush with trees/branches. I'm overall very happy with them. Big pockets, good zippers nice suspender system.

    The jacket on the otherhand has been a bit of a problem thus far. Couldn't be happier with the breathability, wind stop, and waterproofness but the little fella just ain't sturdy enough for skiing in the woods. About the 20th day with the jacket, buddy riding the chair with me says "hey your jacket's ripped", sure enough a 3" by 4" L shaped rip on my Lt shoulder. Didn't even feel any impact from a branch or tree. It was definately a grazing event. So I figured, hey it was a one off and I've worn duct tape patches more often than not in my past life so what the hell. Into the lodge and I dry her off and duct tape it. A little sad because the duct tape is now covering up my summit series logo and now no one can tell how cool I am, but I get over quickly because it's a powder day.

    Two days later and it's another full on powder/storm day and I'm riding up the chair with the wife after skiing some trees and she says "you've got another two rips on your jacket". Sure enough another rip on the right arm and right shoulder area. Let's be clear, these weren't major impacts with branches/wood. I've had some of those and I remember the impacts. These would have been at best "brushes" with brush.

    So I'm afraid the fabric ain't gonna pass the muster for me as a jacket. I loved the weight, waterproofness and breathability but it is just not durable enough for me as a daily driver jacket. Perhaps, if TNF sees fit to give me another one, I'll keep it for alpine adventure days. Otherwise I think it's back to my old 6 year old steep tech jacket.
    “I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.”
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  16. #91
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    Saw some scathing reviews for the new Futurelight tents; apparently they're fine for snowfall but rain comes through the fabric and floods the tent.

  17. #92
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    Sep 2009
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    N side, Terrace, BC
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    Update from TNF. They'll refund me the cost of the jacket but cannot find any futurelight jackets in my size in canada. The gal I talked to thought the non "LT" version would probably work for me and is tougher fabric. Guess I can check in the states for it. Otherwise, going to be looking for a different brand.

    edit, guess that was only in their stores, found one at Altitude. We'll see how this one holds up.
    “I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.”
    ― Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without a Country

    www.mymountaincoop.ca

    This is OUR mountain - come join us!

  18. #93
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    Sep 2020
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    183
    All the futurelight jacket from the steep series are sold out since a while now. I was looking for the brigandine. Any idea when/if they will add new models?

  19. #94
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    Oct 2017
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    2,282
    The production was apparently affected/shut down due to covid, which is why the 2021 Summit/Steep series have not been launched on their site. You can find some of the garments - like the A Cads - at certain major retailers like Evo.com, but availibility of high end FutureLight products will supposedly be severely restricted in certain markets this year - at least for the first part of the season.

    I really, really like the FutureLight stuff. I had to warrenty a L5 Summit jacket due to excessive wear on certain panels (not symmetrical or due to the rubbing, so something wrong with the fabric), but I had already bought a new one before the warranty issue was resolved (full refund). The only thing I do not like about it is is the lack of handwarmer pockets, but oh well. Other than that I really like it - it is simply excellent.

    I also own a Brigandine FutureLight jacket, and quite like it too. The fit is much roomier, the fabric is a lot sturdier and it has much more pockets and vents. I would def get it over the L5 for tree/resort skiing, though the L5 is great for touring.

    I understand that their pants have performed a bit variably, especially in super wet weather. My guess is that they pushed the flex vs waterproofness variable a bit too far toward flexible, where torrential rain would just be a bit too demanding. Most types of snow conditions (other than spring slush) should not pose much of an issue - below freezing temperatures is much less demanding than <10=0 celsius and lots of heavy rain. I have not used their pants myself though - I have gore tex bibs for that use that I really like, so did not want to swap.

  20. #95
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    Mar 2012
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    SW, CO
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASmileyFace View Post
    Have about 10 days in my FutureLight bibs. Easily the most breathable shell layer I've ever owned, but that isn't much of a surprise. They are extremely comfortable and have performed perfectly so far with 8 days of walking 2k+ vert and a couple storm days riding chairs around SW CO. I bought them thinking I'd be spending 80% of my days this season in the backcountry, but a recent change of work plans will have me spending most of January/Feb skiing everyday, inbounds, in the Wastach. I'm very curious to see how the hold up to harder abuse in less favorable conditions. Considering the price tag, I have high expectations. I will check back in on this thread once I've got more days in.
    Quick update after ~100 days in the Purist Bibs.

    For touring, the futurelight fabric is awesome. Breathable, stretchy, more than waterproof enough for storm days, nice pockets, good venting and quality fit. I had a bunch of close calls with trees, rocks, ski lifts, tables, ski edges and outside of a few odd scuffs they held up admirably. They are easily the most comfortable pant I've worn for walking around in the mountains during the winter.

    That said, I spent 60% of my season riding lifts/working in Utah. If all I was doing was riding lifts or lived in one of the wetter coastal climates I'd look for a different pair of pants. They were fine 90% of the time, but on big storm days or ultra cold days I was left desiring a burlier product. The futurelight fabric would eventually saturate through and my long underwear would get wet on the big storm days while riding chairlifts. And on the days where the temperature was 5 to -20 degrees or crazy windy I would need to wear more layers to stay warm. None of these issues are really surprising, but worth noting.

    TLDR: Overall, I am happy with my purchase and would buy them again. Especially since I will be living in SWCO this winter and walking for 75%+ of my turns. If you're riding inbounds only or live in the PNW I'd look elsewhere.

  21. #96
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    Sep 2020
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    183
    Thank you for your feedback. I mostly ride lifts so I am leaning toward the Brigandine. I had the Purist GTX jacket but they removed the Underarm zip vents on the futurelight model. I still have the older Brigandine GTX bib, it is not great for skinning with the weird crotch inseam but it's good enough for me. I contacted EVO and TNF. EVO told me they will receive a new model in the future but they don't know when; TNF customer service told me some BS, (that the steep and summit series were discontinued).
    As a member of the pro program I expected more information on a possible release date of their pro equipment...

  22. #97
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    formally Roch, now HMB
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    311
    Anybody try one of these?

    Name:  Screenshot 2020-12-16 at 8.52.00 AM.png
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    I like the idea of the Futurelight being less rigid, lighter than full Gore, but am concerned about the durability based on Gary From Terrace generating rips/tears in the Summit style jacket. The RETRO one claims to have more durable patches on the shoulders and elbows...

    Not looking for this to be my choice for POW days, got something else for that, looking to replace a lightweight Patagucci shell that I liked the feel of, but it also failed the durability tests...
    Last edited by Scooter65; 12-16-2020 at 09:52 AM.

  23. #98
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    formally Roch, now HMB
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    311
    Nevermind...I bought something off the patagooch Worn Wear Site

  24. #99
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    Dec 2004
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    SoCal
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  25. #100
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    Oct 2019
    Location
    Jasper, AB
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