Avalung and Cat skiing

**GSinister** · 01-07-2019, 12:22 PM

I'm going Cat skiing in Park City at the end of the month.

I have never been, but I'm really pumped! Is an Avalung appropriate for that type of skiing?

Does anyone have a day pack with the Avalung for a reasonable price?

**mtnjam** · 01-07-2019, 12:37 PM

Possibly, but an even more appropriate piece of equipment for Cat skiing is a beacon which I would hope you are provided with and trained on it's usage by the guides.

Probably not necessary to use an Avalung in cat skiing terrain. Depends on what the guides recommend, I'd touch base with them before pulling the trigger on an Avalung or Airbag system.

**auvgeek** · 01-07-2019, 12:40 PM

My understanding is the avalung has kind of fallen out of favor. The main problem is that you have to ski with it in your mouth all the time for it to work ... and even then it's usefulness is limited. Airbag packs have kind of superseded them, IMHO. They're probably still relevant vs an airbag pack against tree wells, but, again, only helpful if you have it in your mouth and you're able to keep it in your mouth.

But yeah, talk to the cat skiing op and see what they recommend. Nothing replaces avy training + transceiver shovel probe.

**GSinister** · 01-07-2019, 01:38 PM

I see that on the Powder Cat site they say probe and shovel are optional. They do provide a beacon and some basic training.

Thanks for the info, I'll give them a call.

**Shredhead** · 01-07-2019, 02:57 PM

Avalungs still have there place and are much more useful in a NARSID situation.

**toast2266** · 01-07-2019, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Shredhead

Avalungs still have there place and are much more useful in a NARSID situation.

This.

I ski with an avalung mostly for fear of tree wells. I don't get the impression that tree wells are a major issue in Park City, but I dunno.

**PNWbrit** · 01-07-2019, 03:09 PM

I have a couple of well worn older avalung packs kicking around somewhere I think, let me check. Would be cheap.

Definitely better than not having one, possibly.

**rudy** · 01-07-2019, 08:40 PM

You could always find a standalone avalung if you decide to go that route, don't necessarily need it built into the pack.

**GSinister** · 01-07-2019, 08:50 PM

Yes, but I was thinking a newer pack might be nice, and I had seen some go cheap earlier in the year. Seemed like packs we're selling for less with the Avalung than without.......

**Bobcat Sig** · 01-08-2019, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by toast2266

This.

I ski with an avalung mostly for fear of tree wells. I don't get the impression that tree wells are a major issue in Park City, but I dunno.

Agreed. More so out west and especially in BC.

When not required to wear the cat or heli's pack - which they do, depending - I'm wearing an Avalung in sub-alpine terrain. Tree wells are a mother-fucker and would absolutely be beneficial should you find yourself pear-shaped and down a tree well.

For heli-served, alpine terrain where the operation doesn't require you to wear their pack; airbag all day and twice on Sunday.

**snapt** · 01-08-2019, 08:05 PM

The last time I went cat skiing (not PC) I left the Avalung and Airbag at home as I was told the terrain was mellow, plenty of AC was done and skier compaction negated most ugly layers.

I was carried 800ish feet and partially buried in a slide. Moral of the story, don't let your BC guard down, gear included.

**Foggy_Goggles** · 01-09-2019, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by snapt

The last time I went cat skiing (not PC) I left the Avalung and Airbag at home as I was told the terrain was mellow, plenty of AC was done and skier compaction negated most ugly layers.

I was carried 800ish feet and partially buried in a slide. Moral of the story, don't let your BC guard down, gear included.

Woah! The only time I have ever been involved in a burial, it was the guide that was buried. This ain't the thread, but I think collectively people need to be very aware of the expert halo whether it is a guide or other.

**snapt** · 01-09-2019, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

I think collectively people need to be very aware of the expert halo whether it is a guide or other.

Well said, I learned a lot that day.

**mall walker** · 01-09-2019, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by toast2266

This.

I ski with an avalung mostly for fear of tree wells. I don't get the impression that tree wells are a major issue in Park City, but I dunno.

Not saying tree wells can't/don't happen here, but they're nowhere near the level of concern in UT as in PNW/BC etc.

What cat operator are you using, op?

**Dantheman** · 01-09-2019, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by mall walker

What cat operator are you using, op?

PC Powder Cats is the only operation that I'm aware of, unless Whisper is now trying to claim some kind of connection to PC. Given that mid-winter snowpack in the Uintas is almost never better than semi-sketchy, with this year being no exception, having an avalung is certainly not a bad idea. They've triggered big slides while guiding clients in the past (not passing judgement, just stating facts), most notably two years ago when Jeremy Jones broke both his legs.

**mall walker** · 01-09-2019, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Dantheman

PC Powder Cats is the only operation that I'm aware of, unless Whisper is now trying to claim some kind of connection to PC. Given that mid-winter snowpack in the Uintas is almost never better than semi-sketchy, with this year being no exception, having an avalung is certainly not a bad idea. They've triggered big slides while guiding clients in the past (not passing judgement, just stating facts), most notably two years ago when Jeremy Jones broke both his legs.

yeah I was mostly wondering if the terrain was the Uintas, or if there was some Wasatch-back cat skiing I was unaware of... op, like Dan says, I'd go fully kitted out, whatever that means for you

**auvgeek** · 01-09-2019, 12:26 PM

Do you guys who wear avalungs for tree wells ski with the mouthpiece in all the time? Or do you hope that you can get it into your mouth after you fall in?

**toast2266** · 01-09-2019, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

Do you guys who wear avalungs for tree wells ski with the mouthpiece in all the time?

Nope. Maybe I should, but that sucks. And I kinda operate on the assumption that, if I'm in a tree well, I probably have at least have a little bit of mobility (unlike in a avy burial) so I can hopefully get the mouthpiece in.

Obviously not a perfect system. But skiing with an avalung doesn't have many downsides, and if I avoided terrain that had tree well hazards, that'd pretty much mean not skiing at all.

**auvgeek** · 01-09-2019, 12:47 PM

Yeah, I have one but stopped using it cuz I decided the chances of getting it in while upside down in a tree well were pretty small and I hated skiing with it in all the time. Maybe I'll play around with it and see how hard it would be to get the mouthpiece in if I skied with it just kinda in front of my face.

I totally agree it has it's uses, but I think it's usefulness is dramatically decreased when you don't ski with the mouthpiece in and assume you can get it in during an emergency situation.

**toast2266** · 01-09-2019, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

I totally agree it has it's uses, but I think it's usefulness is dramatically decreased when you don't ski with the mouthpiece in and assume you can get it in during an emergency situation.

For sure. It just doesn't really bother me to have it dangling there on my shoulder strap, and I figure skiing without it means there is a 100% chance that it won't be useful.

**waxoff** · 01-09-2019, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by GSinister

I see that on the Powder Cat site they say probe and shovel are optional.

What's the story behind shovel and probe being optional? Maybe I'm slow but I don't understand...

I mean, if I was avy buried I'd of course have little use of them, but then again, I sure would like the rest of the skiing group to carry them! Not to speak about the feeling after finding a buddy with the beacon but not having the tools to get him or her out of the snow.

School me please.

**toast2266** · 01-09-2019, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by SoooL

What's the story behind shovel and probe being optional? Maybe I'm slow but I don't understand...

Just a guess, but...

The average cat skier is a full blown gaper. I'd guess that's especially true in Park City. A bunch of goobers running around with probes and shovels arguably will just get in the way of any rescue operation.

Not saying I agree with that logic, but I'm guessing that's where they're coming from.

**PNWbrit** · 01-09-2019, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by SoooL

What's the story behind shovel and probe being optional?

Resort based, low angle, PC vacationing dentist friendly cat skiing.

But even so if you're putting beacons on clients why make shovel and probes optional.

The who we are section of their website is remarkably blank too.

**waxoff** · 01-09-2019, 01:29 PM

Aha, so your basically saying that their client dentists ideally should have a tranceiver with only send and off mode?! And in case of a slide, all surface dentists just turn off their beacons, gather as a group away from the avy, and let the cat crew locate victims and dig. Is that it??