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  1. #1
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    Thumbs up Commencal 29 DH vs Canfield Jedi vs other high pivot DH Bikes

    Yo mags,

    I'm looking at (eventually saving up) and getting a DH bike and have narrowed it down to the high pivot bikes. Any opinions on the bikes above?

  2. #2
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    Also the Norco Aurum HSP and new GT Fury.

    Will this be primarily a race bike or a fun bike?

    The Commencal is definitely a heater when piloted by the World Cup riders.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by NlytendOne View Post
    Also the Norco Aurum HSP and new GT Fury.

    Will this be primarily a race bike or a fun bike?

    The Commencal is definitely a heater when piloted by the World Cup riders.

    Probably both. Going to be a lot of shuttle/pushing due to lack of lifts sometimes though. I was considering the Aurum and Fury and if anyone has experience please chime in, but they are $$$ even compared to the Commencal which is already $$$.

  4. #4
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    Commencal 29 DH vs Canfield Jedi vs other high pivot DH Bikes

    The Commencal is a dope bike, and the price is pretty killer for what you get. The lower end builds of the bikes mentioned are closer to the price range of the Commencal, but donít have nearly as good fork or shock on them.

    That said, the Aarum is an incredibly beautiful bike. If SC waited any longer to release the v10 I would have ended up getting the Norco.

    When I rode the Commencal, my thoughts echoed the pinkbike review on it. It is a heavier bike, and does take a bit more effort to change directions quickly or pick up over features.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueBison View Post
    The Commencal is a dope bike, and the price is pretty killer for what you get. The lower end builds of the bikes mentioned are closer to the price range of the Commencal, but donít have nearly as good fork or shock on them.

    That said, the Aarum is an incredibly beautiful bike. If SC waited any longer to release the v10 I would have ended up getting the Norco.

    When I rode the Commencal, my thoughts echoed the pinkbike review on it. It is a heavier bike, and does take a bit more effort to change directions quickly or pick up over features.
    Have you tried the Aurum?

  6. #6
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    Yeah the Commencal seems to be the ticket for performance-to-price ratio. I'll soon be in the market for a 29 DH race bike, and even though the new V10 is droolworthy, I'd be okay with the extra weight of the Commencal if it delivers in the speed dept. I really need to ride one when I have a functional shoulder again.

  7. #7
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    I would only buy another DH bike if i was riding park all the time or actually racing, and even more so something like the bikes you mentioned. They are designed around WCDH tracks, and will likely suck basically anywhere else.
    Having said definitely shop around on PB buy sell as many people sell them after realizing they rode them twice a year at most. So many used dh bikes for sale here in Whistler.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by NlytendOne View Post
    Yeah the Commencal seems to be the ticket for performance-to-price ratio. I'll soon be in the market for a 29 DH race bike, and even though the new V10 is droolworthy, I'd be okay with the extra weight of the Commencal if it delivers in the speed dept. I really need to ride one when I have a functional shoulder again.
    I wish the geo was slacker and more in line with the Norco, but the Commencal seems to have the best performance to price like you said. It would be cool if they released a cheaper build kit more in line with YT entry-level pricing for the Tues.

  9. #9
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    The commie has been getting stellar reviews pretty much everywhere, with very, very little criticism. A 63.5 ha 29er is pretty slack imo, and can easily be slackened out with a different headset. I would not let head angle determine anything as it is easily rectified.

    Personally I would let 29er HP be 29er HP and get a Tues alu for the use described here. Unless you are going racing and are a pretty lofty guy, then I seriously doubt the Tues will hold you back, while the stellar pricing sure as hell won't and will both get you on it quicker and increase you travel budget. It too is a fantastic bike. Then again I have been running YTs since the Capra came, own a Tues CF I have yet to try (+ a Sender CF too, that I got for my brother) and prefer 27.5 over 29 for this kind of application. I also prefer the kinematics of the Tues over the various HP29ers on the market, on paper if not based on actual experience on those bikes in particular. (For reference - the Tues is my seventh dh bike, and I have been obsessing over bike kinematics since before it got fashionable ) Then again I am not the largest of dudes, at 175cm/68kg - so that I refer 27.5 might be due to lack of height/bulk as well.

    I guess getting a capra pro race or a similar long legged enduro bike could also be a viable option if push bike is the name of the game, adding versatility even if you loose a bit umph going downhill. Long legged enduro bikes are very, very capable nowadays.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    The commie has been getting stellar reviews pretty much everywhere, with very, very little criticism. A 63.5 ha 29er is pretty slack imo, and can easily be slackened out with a different headset. I would not let head angle determine anything as it is easily rectified.

    Personally I would let 29er HP be 29er HP and get a Tues alu for the use described here. Unless you are going racing and are a pretty lofty guy, then I seriously doubt the Tues will hold you back, while the stellar pricing sure as hell won't and will both get you on it quicker and increase you travel budget. It too is a fantastic bike. Then again I have been running YTs since the Capra came, own a Tues CF I have yet to try (+ a Sender CF too, that I got for my brother) and prefer 27.5 over 29 for this kind of application. I also prefer the kinematics of the Tues over the various HP29ers on the market, on paper if not based on actual experience on those bikes in particular. (For reference - the Tues is my seventh dh bike, and I have been obsessing over bike kinematics since before it got fashionable ) Then again I am not the largest of dudes, at 175cm/68kg - so that I refer 27.5 might be due to lack of height/bulk as well.

    I guess getting a capra pro race or a similar long legged enduro bike could also be a viable option if push bike is the name of the game, adding versatility even if you loose a bit umph going downhill. Long legged enduro bikes are very, very capable nowadays.
    Since we're bringing non HP bikes into this now, how's the Canyon Sender compared to the Tues?

    Edit: And with the long/low slack geo, have any people on the shorter side tried upsizing to the XL as the only difference is the reach with the Supreme29? Geometron/Sick Bicycle Co/Pole numbers are close to that.

  11. #11
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    the main differences between the Sender and Tues is a bit less progresstivity / flatter leverage rate curve in the former (depending on which of the two last Tues iterations you compare it to) as well as adjustable chainstay length and slightly longer reach - the latter mitigated by the Tues also coming in one size larger. Other than that they are very similar, where both are fantastic bikes.

    Bang for buck wise they are very, very difficult to beat imo. The nice part is that they are not sub par frames with nice bits attached - the frames arearguably the best part of the build.

    As for Sender AL vs Sender CF, I seem to remember that the kinematics are very similar where the decreased complexity of the AL might be passed on over to the CF in the next iteration of that bike. Time will tell. Cannot remember if the CF and AL have the same stroke length though.

    At some point/proficiency reach is equally a preference number as strictly related to size. If you like longer bikes than sizing up is the way to go, even though some might have taken the length variable a bit too far imo.

    I am guessing this has been debated at lenght at ridemonkey already, so it might worth checking that forum out.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    the main differences between the Sender and Tues is a bit less progresstivity / flatter leverage rate curve in the former (depending on which of the two last Tues iterations you compare it to) as well as adjustable chainstay length and slightly longer reach - the latter mitigated by the Tues also coming in one size larger. Other than that they are very similar, where both are fantastic bikes.

    Bang for buck wise they are very, very difficult to beat imo. The nice part is that they are not sub par frames with nice bits attached - the frames arearguably the best part of the build.

    As for Sender AL vs Sender CF, I seem to remember that the kinematics are very similar where the decreased complexity of the AL might be passed on over to the CF in the next iteration of that bike. Time will tell. Cannot remember if the CF and AL have the same stroke length though.

    At some point/proficiency reach is equally a preference number as strictly related to size. If you like longer bikes than sizing up is the way to go, even though some might have taken the length variable a bit too far imo.

    I am guessing this has been debated at lenght at ridemonkey already, so it might worth checking that forum out.
    Yeah, I lurk on the RideMonkey Forums, it seems pretty dead compared to Pinkbike's though, even though I'd say there's more tech discussion on Ridemonkey. Value-wise though the Tues Al seems like the best, although the high pivot on the Sender 29 is very appealing. I wonder when YT's next sale will be, or if they will offer up 26" or 29" "special editions" of the Tues sometime.

  13. #13
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    Yeah, Ridemonkey is a bit dead. What debate is there is usually pretty good though, and if you were to start a thread you'll probably get quality answers. So not like Pinkbike or Vital where the competance level is not great a lot of the time.

    both companies are probably going to release 29ers come the season, where getting 27.5 at discount should be feasible. YT euroland just had a huge sale selling the CF Pro at a whopping 25% off - making an already great deal pretty sensational imo.

    i'm a guessing you mean supreme29er no, as both Sender models are 27.5, and both are sporting horst link designs. The CF one just has an additional pull link to drive the shock, which the AL version foregoes. I seem to remember that the AL version actually was slightly more progressive than the CF one, but I cannot remember where I read that.

    And yes, YTs still beat Canyons for value. YTs pricing is pretty damn amazing.

    And btw, if you were to go down the enduro route from YT, get the 27.5 Capra - not the 29er. The kinematics of the 27.5 version is slightly different, more ground hugging and a bit plusher. I bought the old version before they sold out, and for my use I am glad that I did as I prefer the kinematics of that version of the bike over the new one. I sized up though.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    Yeah, Ridemonkey is a bit dead. What debate is there is usually pretty good though, and if you were to start a thread you'll probably get quality answers. So not like Pinkbike or Vital where the competance level is not great a lot of the time.

    both companies are probably going to release 29ers come the season, where getting 27.5 at discount should be feasible. YT euroland just had a huge sale selling the CF Pro at a whopping 25% off - making an already great deal pretty sensational imo.

    i'm a guessing you mean supreme29er no, as both Sender models are 27.5, and both are sporting horst link designs. The CF one just has an additional pull link to drive the shock, which the AL version foregoes. I seem to remember that the AL version actually was slightly more progressive than the CF one, but I cannot remember where I read that.

    And yes, YTs still beat Canyons for value. YTs pricing is pretty damn amazing.

    And btw, if you were to go down the enduro route from YT, get the 27.5 Capra - not the 29er. The kinematics of the 27.5 version is slightly different, more ground hugging and a bit plusher. I bought the old version before they sold out, and for my use I am glad that I did as I prefer the kinematics of that version of the bike over the new one. I sized up though.
    Ya - I had a typo I meant supreme29.

  15. #15
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    Aluminium tues is a great deal and a sweet ride but mega heavy. I think a medium is atleast 40lbs

  16. #16
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    Not a racer but I would really like to try an HSP 29er for shits and giggles.

  17. #17
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    YT quote the small as being 17.2kg, a weight that was consider pretty decent just a few years ago - or it still is. The top of the pops Supreme29er in XL set up tubeless weighs 16.99kg according to Paul Aston/Pinkbike - so not a vast difference. Aka, the Tues weighs pretty much the same if set up tubeless. To be fair, an XL Tues AL will weigh more than 17,2kg, while downhill24 quote the Supreme29er as weighing 16.5kg (different/lighter cranks and brakes compared to Paul's). Comparably specced HP 650b Commie Supremes are listed at between 17.5kg and 17.8kg in Commencal's store, so 29ers will most likely weigh even more at a lower end spec.

    Besides, there is currently no way to build a Supreme29er anywhere close to what you pay for the Tues AL. The comparable Tues in terms of cost would be the CF or CF Pro Race even at 15.4kg and 15.2kg respectively.

    Don't get me wrong - both are sweet bikes, but I would not start with looking at the weight, especially since that is a comparison the YT is probably going to win close to every time

    Anyway, sorry to keep on talking about non high pivot 29ers, and talking from a value + performance point of view If the Supreme29 is what makes you stoked, then get that one - instead of second guessing if the more affordable bike you got in its stead are as good. Buying a bike is not just being sensible, but getting what gets you hyped to use it

    Again, I have yet to hear much/any criticism directed at the Commie - it hasn't been given the "bike of the Year" moniker at both Vital and Pinkbike for nothing

  18. #18
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    Commencal 29 DH vs Canfield Jedi vs other high pivot DH Bikes

    Not hacking on the tues. It is a nice bike. OP mentioned racing though so weight is a factor. Friend has one and I thought it was heavier. I like the geo and it felt great. I was surprised with the weight though as it had a good parts spec. I seem to remember I thought I may upsize on that(add a poundish). Normally Iím on a medium and I thought Iíd like the large tues. Sharp looking bike. He has the stealth one . Felt like itíd be best with a coil which is refreshing these days. Although those hsp bikes look like you could put a shock from a hundred $ wall mart bike and itíd eat up the trail.
    Pricey but my personal fave would be the Norco Aurum. Iíd get the small and put the headset cups in the long position. Small has a short cs (norcoís thing that more companies should be doing). Nice to get the cs a little shorter with a hsp bike. Only 180mm but great deal at Commencal on the discontinued supreme sx (that geo fits me better). Havenít seen the price point on the gt but that might move it in front of the Aurum until the dentistry practice starts kicking in and I get the Aurum. No 9ers for me park or racing

  19. #19
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    all the aforementioned bikes are very, very good bikes - with a few different pros and cons. The OP is wanting a HP bike, and the two obvious contenders are is the Commencal and Norco's take on a similar design. Both Pinkbike and Vital have reviews on both (I think). I would not get either, but then again - I am not the OP

    While the entry of 29-dh bikes were introduced with fanfare saying how much faster those bikes are, it still seems like that is a truth with some modification - mostly based on personal preference and course design where no definitive answer has yet been demonstrated. Lots of straights with big holes - sure, 29er HPs will do very well there. More turns and more active braking - horst link 27.5s like the Tues or Sender does that very, very well. Smaller lighter rider? 27.5 are perhaps your best bet. Loftier rider? 29ers seem like a better fit. Both designs work very, very well. That being said - I think a lot of companies have yet to perfect their 29er to the same degree as their 27.5 bikes - for instance Trek's Session has been getting mediocre reviews stating it is harsh and insensitive.

    Obviously, owning both a Sender and Tues I am a bit biased. I would def buy them again. I am very price and kinematics focused, and prefering 27.5 wheels those two are the best designs on the market - especially give bang for buck. I also think both YT and Canyon have a better track record at quality assurance than Commencal - if perhaps not as of late, then at least historically.

    I have never tried a high pivot bike. However, it is not readily apparent to me that the rear wheels ability to move up and back is worth trade off with the increase in wheelbase length during heavy cornering or HP-designs excessive brake squat. Then again, if you know how and when to brake, a bit of brake squat can be a good thing (also what makes current link driven single pivot designs to perform very, very well). However, if you are not up to race pace then a progressive horst link bike with a good anti squat values / pedal feedback balance could be an easier way to race pace exibiting many of the same characteristics to eat up terrain.

    Dollar for dollar there are very few bikes that can really compete with a Tues CF. That does not make it the best bike for everybody out there. We are lucky in that there are many truly awe inspiring bikes out there nowadays. Personally I prefer the geo of the Supreme over the Aurum, and I seem to remeber most reviews favoring the Supreme of the two as well. I do not have access to the kinematic graphs for the Aurum or the Fury, so hard to compare the three.

    Luckily for the OP there is a wealth of good reviews online for all of the aforementioned bikes, so I am sure he will do what is right for him - and get a stellar bike to boot.

  20. #20
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    Weíre a similar fit. ^^all of that. I like Horst link bikes but I see the advantages of a hsp bike and I was surprised how little brake Jack I saw of them. Iíd like to try one. The gt brings that all together with both the Horst link and higher pivot. Gt , Aurum and supreme dh/sx can be 27.5. Gt can be both on the same frame, another plus. Been a loooong time since Iíve considered a gt. New bike looks sweet. Havenít heard of any planned release for the similar designed Scott proto

  21. #21
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    I am guessing several new bikes will be released over the next couple of months in 29er iterations, from Mondraker, Scott and Saracen amongst others. Time will tell.

    And yes, you are of course correct - I did not mean to say that high pivot = 29er only - that is not the case as you point out

  22. #22
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    Figured you were aware but just in case

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    YT quote the small as being 17.2kg, a weight that was consider pretty decent just a few years ago - or it still is. The top of the pops Supreme29er in XL set up tubeless weighs 16.99kg according to Paul Aston/Pinkbike - so not a vast difference. Aka, the Tues weighs pretty much the same if set up tubeless. To be fair, an XL Tues AL will weigh more than 17,2kg, while downhill24 quote the Supreme29er as weighing 16.5kg (different/lighter cranks and brakes compared to Paul's). Comparably specced HP 650b Commie Supremes are listed at between 17.5kg and 17.8kg in Commencal's store, so 29ers will most likely weigh even more at a lower end spec.

    Besides, there is currently no way to build a Supreme29er anywhere close to what you pay for the Tues AL. The comparable Tues in terms of cost would be the CF or CF Pro Race even at 15.4kg and 15.2kg respectively.

    Don't get me wrong - both are sweet bikes, but I would not start with looking at the weight, especially since that is a comparison the YT is probably going to win close to every time

    Anyway, sorry to keep on talking about non high pivot 29ers, and talking from a value + performance point of view If the Supreme29 is what makes you stoked, then get that one - instead of second guessing if the more affordable bike you got in its stead are as good. Buying a bike is not just being sensible, but getting what gets you hyped to use it

    Again, I have yet to hear much/any criticism directed at the Commie - it hasn't been given the "bike of the Year" moniker at both Vital and Pinkbike for nothing
    No worries. I think its good to hear input for non hsp bikes especially for others taking a look at this thread, so if you or anyone else have your 2cents to chime in, please do!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kid-kapow View Post
    all the aforementioned bikes are very, very good bikes - with a few different pros and cons. The OP is wanting a HP bike, and the two obvious contenders are is the Commencal and Norco's take on a similar design. Both Pinkbike and Vital have reviews on both (I think). I would not get either, but then again - I am not the OP

    While the entry of 29-dh bikes were introduced with fanfare saying how much faster those bikes are, it still seems like that is a truth with some modification - mostly based on personal preference and course design where no definitive answer has yet been demonstrated. Lots of straights with big holes - sure, 29er HPs will do very well there. More turns and more active braking - horst link 27.5s like the Tues or Sender does that very, very well. Smaller lighter rider? 27.5 are perhaps your best bet. Loftier rider? 29ers seem like a better fit. Both designs work very, very well. That being said - I think a lot of companies have yet to perfect their 29er to the same degree as their 27.5 bikes - for instance Trek's Session has been getting mediocre reviews stating it is harsh and insensitive.

    Obviously, owning both a Sender and Tues I am a bit biased. I would def buy them again. I am very price and kinematics focused, and prefering 27.5 wheels those two are the best designs on the market - especially give bang for buck. I also think both YT and Canyon have a better track record at quality assurance than Commencal - if perhaps not as of late, then at least historically.

    I have never tried a high pivot bike. However, it is not readily apparent to me that the rear wheels ability to move up and back is worth trade off with the increase in wheelbase length during heavy cornering or HP-designs excessive brake squat. Then again, if you know how and when to brake, a bit of brake squat can be a good thing (also what makes current link driven single pivot designs to perform very, very well). However, if you are not up to race pace then a progressive horst link bike with a good anti squat values / pedal feedback balance could be an easier way to race pace exibiting many of the same characteristics to eat up terrain.

    Dollar for dollar there are very few bikes that can really compete with a Tues CF. That does not make it the best bike for everybody out there. We are lucky in that there are many truly awe inspiring bikes out there nowadays. Personally I prefer the geo of the Supreme over the Aurum, and I seem to remeber most reviews favoring the Supreme of the two as well. I do not have access to the kinematic graphs for the Aurum or the Fury, so hard to compare the three.

    Luckily for the OP there is a wealth of good reviews online for all of the aforementioned bikes, so I am sure he will do what is right for him - and get a stellar bike to boot.
    Just was initially looking at HSP because there are a LOT of horst link bikes out there (and rearward travel is pretty compelling) to compare but I'd consider other suspension designs. Do you have experience on a Knolly Podium by any chance? I'm pretty sure it can squeeze in 27.5 wheels. I've heard some good things about it online.

  25. #25
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    YT just bumped up the price of the Tues AL Comp to $3299. Big price jump.

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