Moment Skis Discussion

[Self Jupiter]

See my edit above about rocker.

Also, I am 5'7" and about 140-150#, but I have always skied bigger skis.

Do shorter guys like us (I’m around 5’7’’ 195ish for reference) have higher instances of liking longer, fully rockered skis as chargers? Kind of feels that way.

For more fully rockered science, L to R:
187 Hoji
196 Renegades
186 Volkl Ones (my buddy’s)
194 Devs
And 185 Praxis Pows

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

I think you are onto something. My touring skis are 187 hojis. My pow skis are 186 Volkl Revolt 124. I did have 193 Shiros and they were incredible at going straight and fast in chop, but were tiresome for a smaller guy like me at lower speeds.

I think longer rockered skis for short rippers = easy to turn when going slower, but still allow you to go mach looney. I don't care who the skier is, you just can't go that fast in soft snow on 180cm skis.

[auvgeek]

Follow up question: has anyone skied the PB&Jib? Comparisons to the Kartel 96?

[sruffian]

auvgeek - they're making inbounds and touring versions of the wildcat 108. You can make a pb and jib layup full custom 108. Aside from that, it sounds like you're talking about 4mm underfoot?

[auvgeek]

auvgeek - they're making inbounds and touring versions of the wildcat 108. You can make a pb and jib layup full custom 108. Aside from that, it sounds like you're talking about 4mm underfoot?

Yep, understand that. And maybe I'll go that direction. But I just prefer the sidecut profile of the DW compared to the Wildcat. If I'm going to pay for a custom layup, why not get it on the sidecut/taper profile I prefer? Plus, the 108 comes in a 187, and I'd prefer the 190. If I'm being picky. Which I am. Cuz again I'd be paying for a custom ski.

regardless of which ski I decide to go with, I'm still curious if anyone's skied the PB&J and how Moment's bamboo layup compares to ON3Ps .

[SupreChicken]

Hey Moment, since you guys have talked about people messing with rocker profiles and flexes, like the PB&Death, etc: have you ever built a Deathwish 112 with a bibby profile? Any thoughts on how that would ski?

I could envision skiing two layups with the Deathwish 112 shape and Bibby profile:

- PB&Jib layup (bamboo + extra glass & rubber) with Bibby flex for inbounds. Mount at rec with P18.
- tour layup with standard flex (and skin-clip tail) for pow touring. Mount -1 from rec with Tecton.

Why? Well, I just really like the width and shape of the Deathwish compared to the Bibby but I'm not sold on triple camber. I also like the idea of having a similar shape for inbounds and pow touring. And I love the feel of bamboo for inbounds. And frankly, I love my 2014 ON3P Jeffreys to death, but they're gonna die one day and ON3P doesn't really make anything like them anymore. But ...
186 Jeffrey 110: 136 110 128 R25 (straight tape 186.8)
190 Deathwish: 138 112 129 R27 (straight tape 188.2 per Blister)

All that said, I know rocker and sidecut are intimately linked, and I don't want to mess anything up too badly by altering the way the rocker and sidecut match up.

I’m sure this can happen, for a chunk above retail for the camber change. Prob another chunk for the layup change. But given how much you love the Jeffrey, if this fits the bill, it’ll be worth it.

I’m Intrigued by the thinking. Thanks for the post, AG

[Toddball]

Going to jump on the 187 Meridian hype train here. Very fun in virtually all Alpental conditions, including rather deep post-snowmaggedon blower out the gates. Haven't wished for a bigger ski yet. Flexes stiffer than a 15/16 187 Hoji (especially the tips), and skis a lot like that ski except less tip dive and can actually ski switch. Mine are mounted at -1.5cm from center (+3.5cm from recommended) due to prior mount conflict, but I don't mind the mount there at 5'9" 135. Great combo of edge hold, maneuverability and stompability for getting lost out the gates.

[cydwhit]

Hey Moment, since you guys have talked about people messing with rocker profiles and flexes, like the PB&Death, etc: have you ever built a Deathwish 112 with a bibby profile? Any thoughts on how that would ski?

I was actually thinking about this during a long tour exit yesterday. My favorite skis have always been in this 110-114 waist, (Jeffery 114, Deathwish, Shreditor 112) and the Deathwish is by far my favorite of the bunch. But I personally didn't jive with the Bibby/Wildcat as well as apparently everyone else on the internet, so I went back to the Deathwish. I was asking myself "would I dig a Wildcat that came out of a Deathwish mold, or a Deathwish that came out of a Wildcat mold? I really don't know, although I'd assume Moment has played with wider triple camber skis?

But, for me, the question is sort of moot, I lost nothing by going to triple camber, and gained a lot of grip and maneuverability. I think I would still love the Deathwish with a more traditional profile, but I'm not sure it would be my favorite ski anymore. Have you skied triple camber? If you haven't I'd really recommend it, before paying a bunch to get a ski without it.




On a sorta related note, I've now retired my old Deathwishes twice, and just brought them back to life for the third time. I have a new pair, with Pivots for inbounds, but every tour I went on, I missed them. So I dug my 6 year old, custom painted, beat to shit pair out of the garage, drilled a third set of holes in them, cut some divots so these stupid pomocca skins stay on them, and have been touring on them for the last few weeks. They make me SO excited for the Tour 112. Been skiing everything from blower pow to scraped out steepness and they handle it all so predictably. Once I've got my inbounds DW with Pivots, and the tour layup with Vipecs I can die a happy man.

[auvgeek]

They make me SO excited for the Tour 112. Been skiing everything from blower pow to scraped out steepness and they handle it all so predictably.

Maybe I missed it, but is this a thing for next season?

[toast2266]

Maybe I missed it, but is this a thing for next season?

Yeah, and I'm with Cy - pretty psyched for a real DW Tour. Hoping the flex stays the same as the regular version.

[meter-man]

Maybe I missed it, but is this a thing for next season?

Next year's catalog shows a DW Tour 112: http://www.mmntskis.com/

[auvgeek]

whelp, sounds like a DW 112 tour is in my future.

Still very interested in a DW 112 the PB&Jib layup, possibly with the wildcat rocker profile. My sense is the triple camber will bother me more inbounds than touring. But yeah, obviously this is all very preemptive and I need to ski a stock DW. But isn't this forum founded on anal, preemptive overthinking?

[mr_pretzel]

Is it the lack of taper compared to the wildcat that you are interested in on the DW?

[auvgeek]

Is it the lack of taper compared to the wildcat that you are interested in on the DW?

Primarily the taper, yeah. Not really a fan of large or abrupt amounts of taper.

I love the feel of bamboo for inbounds -- since I'd have to get a custom pair made in the PB&Jib layup, I feel like I might as well be picky. The width (112 vs 108/116) width plays a very minor factor, but mostly I just like the sidecut profile of the DW.

Plus, I'm also just curious since they were talking about the PB&Death if anyone had tried the opposite. All theoretical at this point since my Jeffrey 110s have plenty of life left in them and also I have no money.

[jdadour]

Primarily the taper, yeah. Not really a fan of large or abrupt amounts of taper.

I love the feel of bamboo for inbounds -- since I'd have to get a custom pair made in the PB&Jib layup, I feel like I might as well be picky. The width (112 vs 108/116) width plays a very minor factor, but mostly I just like the sidecut profile of the DW.

Plus, I'm also just curious since they were talking about the PB&Death if anyone had tried the opposite. All theoretical at this point since my Jeffrey 110s have plenty of life left in them and also I have no money.

You should check out the effective edge measurements of DW to Wildcat. The Wildcat has more effective edge and hence less taper than the DW.

Heavy Wildcat 108 will come in the same sizing as the Wildcat, so there will be a 190. That may be the ski you want.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[toast2266]

I've seen a couple people talk about the large amount of taper on the Wildcat / Bibby. I don't really get that - I'd say that ski has relatively little taper by modern standards. Which is a good thing, as far as I'm concerned.

[auvgeek]

I was thinking about that. I think it's that it looks like it has more taper because the taper is more abrupt than the Deathwish (and other skis)?

On 2D snow, sure: effective edge is all that really matters. In 3D snow, I think the abruptness of the taper makes a difference in how the skis feels ... but I don't have anything other than a vague feeling about that.

[toast2266]

I was thinking about that. I think it's that it looks like it has more taper because the taper is more abrupt than the Deathwish (and other skis)?

On 2D snow, sure: effective edge is all that really matters. In 3D snow, I think the abruptness of the taper makes a difference in how the skis feels ... but I don't have anything other than a vague feeling about that.

I think some of it is just that Moment's square tips make it trickier to eyeball the taper. I just pulled a tape for some super rough measurements of how deep the taper runs on a few skis in my garage. Bibby's were around 6". Deathwish was around 7". Some Rossi Star 7's were around 12". So the Bibby's have a pretty short taper, but it looks somewhat abrupt. But if the Bibby / Wildcat had a more traditional rounded tip, I think most of what looks like "taper" would look more like a normal tip, curving in to a point.

[auvgeek]

Sounds like we're saying the same thing regarding the taper on the Bibby. Except I'm saying I think more abrupt taper changes the feel of the ski in 3D snow since there's a bit less float from the very tip. YMMV. Maybe it's all in my head. But I haven't gotten along super well with skis that have more abrupt taper.

[doebedoe]

I was thinking about that. I think it's that it looks like it has more taper because the taper is more abrupt than the Deathwish (and other skis)?

On 2D snow, sure: effective edge is all that really matters. In 3D snow, I think the abruptness of the taper makes a difference in how the skis feels ... but I don't have anything other than a vague feeling about that.

It does. Bibby's taper is noticeably longer and creates a looser snow feel in 3D snow.

Source: I own both in 184. Which you're always welcome to when wandering through Denver.

[lemonhead]

@melee any updates if you will take our money on a March run of the heavy 108 Wildcats?

[eskido]

This has been a super good thread to follow for the last couple pages, I’m wondering what is going to replace the Meridian 117 this year?? I was quite hyped on this stick and super bummed to see it go away, quick google search stays there are none to be found in the longer length. Why no mas??

[Reformed]

It does. Bibby's taper is noticeably longer and creates a looser snow feel in 3D snow.

Source: I own both in 184. Which you're always welcome to when wandering through Denver.

I agree that the Bibby is looser than the DW in 3D snow (and in general), but I've never really thought it was due to the slight difference in taper between the two skis. I'm not suggesting that it's not, but I always wrote both skis off as having pretty minimal taper in the grand scheme of things. I usually found myself wondering if the difference in looseness was more to do with waist width, flex, rocker profile and more specifically, the micro camber section in the tail of the DW digging in harder as the ski is put more on edge. Maybe I just need to detune my DWs a little more to make them feel more like my Bibbys. Mine are both 190s.

[toast2266]

I think the bibby's looser feel in 3d snow is 90% due to the fact that the rocker lines run much deeper into the ski than on the deathwish. I think the nuances of the tip taper have relatively little to do with it.

[sruffian]

^ this.

For its width in today's industry, the Bibby is not a very tapered ski, and for that reason doesn't ski as surfy as something like the 192 gpo. I dare say it's a big part of why it's so good in chop/crud, too