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  1. #1651
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Evergreen Co
    Posts
    967
    Good point. I think for me it just needs to be 'quite a bit heavier'. 2400 grams for a 108 under foot ski would be bulky but I just would rather err on the heavy side.

    Quote Originally Posted by phatty View Post
    Even a 2200g version would probably give it enough heft to deal with variable and chop better. I was set to buy a pair until the reviews came in on the variable performance and lightness.

  2. #1652
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Truckee & Nor Cal
    Posts
    15,608
    2400 is crazy heavy for a 108 ski IMO.
    I ski 135 degree chutes switch to the road.

  3. #1653
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Evergreen Co
    Posts
    967
    I have wren 114’s that are in the upper 2400 gram range and I had old squad 7’s that were mid 2500 grams and I’ve loved both. That being said, they’re a little wider.

    It’s not unprecedented but I agree that it doesn’t need to quite be 2400 grams for a 108 ski. A heavy destroyer of chop ski in a playful shape would be pretty darn fun. I think that’s why people like the Black Ops 118 so much (if they would only make a longer length).

    I would just rather have a ski that feels heavy when my legs are tired rather than something that feels light in variable snow.

    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    2400 is crazy heavy for a 108 ski IMO.

  4. #1654
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    8,938
    Commander 108?

  5. #1655
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Bay Area / Tahoe
    Posts
    2,463
    Thinking of creating a touring setup for next season. Who knows what the resort situation will be like. Will be in Colorado - Summit County.

    I'm 5'9, 180 lbs, ski fast and tend to charge, but I like quick, playful skis that are easy to pivot and slash. Inbounds quiver consists of 184cm Praxis Piste Jibs, 182 Praxis Qs in Heavy Layup, 191 Praxis Lhasa Pow Fats, 189cm ON3P Cease and Desists, 192cm Praxis Protests. Have owned/liked 187cm Praxis Concepts and GPOs too (Yes I'm a Praxis Fanboy)

    Looking to add a Moment ski to the quiver, probably with Tectons. Main models I'm looking at are:

    184 Wildcat Tour
    190 Deathwish Tour
    190 Wildcat 108 Tour

    Deathwish sounds great, but I've read it likes a pretty neutral stance, and can get moderate tip dive if you pressure your tips. I hate tip dive, and I like being able to get into the tips. Maybe sizing up to 190cm and mounting back -1cm would do the trick?

    Or perhaps the Wildcat 108 Tour would fit the bill better. 190cm seems a good length, but maybe 184cm would work fine.

    Last option Wildcat Tour in 184cm - done lots of reading on the regular Wildcat, seems like a good mesh for my style. 184cm length for less weight, and more manueverability.

    Just curious on people's thoughts, recommendations who have been on these skis.
    Last edited by Muggydude; 04-15-2020 at 04:00 PM.

  6. #1656
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Truckee & Nor Cal
    Posts
    15,608

    Moment Skis Discussion

    I’m about your size and have Wildcat 108 Tours in 184cm with Tectons and I’m pretty stoked on the setup. Very versatile. You can drive the tips.
    I ski 135 degree chutes switch to the road.

  7. #1657
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,676
    Agree w TahoeJ. I have both the older Bibby and WC 108 (neither are tours though) in 184 and about your size and don't have any issues with tip dive. They are an easy ski to maneuver so if you prefer longer skis I wouldn't rule the 190s out.

  8. #1658
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Montucky
    Posts
    1,997

    Moment Skis Discussion

    190 Wildcat Tour owner here: this ski has pretty much turned into a BC quiver of one for me.

    I’ve skied 4K ascents in Japan with them (MT. Yotei and Shiribetsu), 6-7 hour BC tours in Montana, and couloirs in the Tetons. Plus a handful of resort days in Japan.

    They handle variable conditions and inbounds groomers quite well, but the real value is in soft powder. I’ve rarely ever wanted a bigger ski.

    I’m pushing 200 pounds and the 190 is a great length for me. I run them with Plum guide bindings and Dynafit Vulcans. I could see a shift binding or cast setup being amazing with this ski.

    The only weaknesses I’ve seen is dust on crust resort days, along with mega dense wind pack or cascade concrete type snow. Wax is your friend with these big boys.

    If you’re looking for true expedition weight skis, then moment isn’t your bag. I bought a 1600 gram setup for the real big spring days.

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  9. #1659
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Evergreen Co
    Posts
    967
    I have skied the:
    Wildcat 190cm
    Bibby Tour 184cm
    Wildcat 184cm
    Deathwish Tour 190cm

    For me personally, I really like the Deathwish as a touring setup. It’s quicker, slashes better and allows more creative turn shapes. My opinion is that you can weight the shovels and drive the tips and use that to bend the ski into sharp turns. It took me a minute to click with the skis because I can’t just go out and drive them through everything. It takes a lighter touch, but once you adjust it’s really fun.

    Wildcat Tour 184cm was good, but my least favorite of the bunch. If felt like it gave up a lot of stability for a little weight... and couldn’t be driven like the non-tour core version. For CO snow I’m around 165lbs and this ski left me wanting more on days with light blower powder. The 190cm seems to stay on top of the snow better while getting up to speed and can still turn on a dime.

    So my 2c:
    Don’t size down in the tour.
    Deathwish is sweet even if you like chargers.

  10. #1660
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Bay Area / Tahoe
    Posts
    2,463
    Hmm. 190cm Deathwish could be interesting then. On Paper, the deathwish should have more float and slightly more of a pintail than the Wildcat 108 too.

    Brother is trying to push me to 184cm for the weight savings, but he's also 40 lbs lighter than I am (tours with 12cm backland 107s).

  11. #1661
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Los Angeles/Mammoth
    Posts
    1,316
    Quote Originally Posted by Muggydude View Post
    Hmm. 190cm Deathwish could be interesting then. On Paper, the deathwish should have more float and slightly more of a pintail than the Wildcat 108 too.

    Brother is trying to push me to 184cm for the weight savings, but he's also 40 lbs lighter than I am (tours with 12cm backland 107s).
    You are definitely on the right track. Take a look at the effective edge Deathwish vs Wildcat too. Deathwish has less. You should definitely go 190 in the deathwish, and you could probably get away with 184 in Wildcat or Wildcat 108.

    If you are just going to be touring on them, you could save some weight by getting Vipecs, and then get the longer heavier ski.

  12. #1662
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Bay Area / Tahoe
    Posts
    2,463
    Spent a while talking to a moment factory guy. Pretty much settled back to the Deathwish Tour. He originally recommended 184cm, but thought 190cm could work too.

    Still bouncing around between 184cm and 190cm. More centered mount + short legs might make kickturns and tight spaces a little difficult with the 190cm?

    This is my first touring rig so not really sure what to prioritize. Brother and his wife are who I'll tour with most of the time, and they're really pushing towards 184cm as a one ski CO quiver.

  13. #1663
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    1,911
    Since you ski a 182 quixote I think you should definitely get the 184. Will be good for your first touring ski and will be fun in the CO trees.

    Kickturns will also be a lot easier if you have short legs + haven’t toured much. 190 + -5cm mount point = a lot of tail to sneak around.

  14. #1664
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    1,465
    Quote Originally Posted by Muggydude View Post
    Spent a while talking to a moment factory guy. Pretty much settled back to the Deathwish Tour. He originally recommended 184cm, but thought 190cm could work too.

    Still bouncing around between 184cm and 190cm. More centered mount + short legs might make kickturns and tight spaces a little difficult with the 190cm?

    This is my first touring rig so not really sure what to prioritize. Brother and his wife are who I'll tour with most of the time, and they're really pushing towards 184cm as a one ski CO quiver.
    Personally I’d go with the normal Deathwish in a 184, if you’re planning on a touring core you’ll need to compensate with the 190 but I doubt it’ll make up for the lack of backbone.
    Fear, Doubt, Disbelief, you have to let it all go. Free your mind!

  15. #1665
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    365
    Quote Originally Posted by Muggydude View Post
    Spent a while talking to a moment factory guy. Pretty much settled back to the Deathwish Tour. He originally recommended 184cm, but thought 190cm could work too.

    Still bouncing around between 184cm and 190cm. More centered mount + short legs might make kickturns and tight spaces a little difficult with the 190cm?

    This is my first touring rig so not really sure what to prioritize. Brother and his wife are who I'll tour with most of the time, and they're really pushing towards 184cm as a one ski CO quiver.
    I’m 6’ and about your weight. I have put lots of days on non tour versions of the Bibby and DW in the 190 length. Bibby mounted alpine, DW mounted tour for a number of seasons and alpine currently. I have probably said this before, but for me the slight bump in hard pack performance that the DW might provide compared to the Bibby is not significant enough to justify the soft snow performance that it gives up. I mounted my DWs at -1 to make them as similar to my Bibbys as I could and they always left me wanting a little in pow. Don’t get me wrong, they’re fun and likely perform better than lots of 112 waisted skis, but the Bibbys have always been better and are pretty decent on hardback to boot. All of that said, the 190 with the giant twin tail kinda sucks for kickturns etc. If you like to drive the tips I think the shorter lengths might feel like snow blades for someone used to skiing longer lengths of C&Ds and Protests and the 190s will be cumbersome on steep skin tracks for someone your height. I have since swapped both of these skis for Billygoats and Steeple 108s and have been very happy with both. Bibbys still come out sometimes, but DWs are likely being moved along.

  16. #1666
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    352
    I'm 5'11 170ish and ski regular the regular core 190 deathwish inbounds. If you were getting it for inbounds use I would say 190 all day long, but for touring they are definitely cumbersome. If this is a true dedicated touring setup I would go 184 for sure. When you're touring you probably won't be skiing the same style as you do inbounds. Skiing less steep terrain, stopping and waiting for partners, and spending 90% of the time going uphill makes the shorter length the obvious choice imo. Your skins will be shorter/lighter, and there will be less surface area for snow to stick to and weigh you down on the way up. It is also easier to rip skins with skis on with a shorter touring ski, and easier to deal with shorter skins in wind/they take up less room in your pack. I ski 190 Deathwishes, 184 Wrens, 188 Megawatts, 188 pb&js, and my dedicated touring skis are 178 Voile superchargers.

    I'd also say to mount the deathwishes at -1 or -2. They do have a more centered mount and if you are mostly skiing powder on them and are used to longer skis, the extra cm will help. Mine are mounted at -2 and I love them there as my everyday soft snow ski, but I am also a tele skier and for alpine I'd probably be fine at -1.

  17. #1667
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    152
    Just ordered my first pair of skins for my Deathwishes. I went with the BD Ascension STS. Well, when I went to widen the tip loop to it's max width, I noticed that it's still not very far down the tip of the ski, and just feeling it by hand, slips easily.

    Anyone else have this issue?

  18. #1668
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    1,710
    Quote Originally Posted by AZskibum View Post
    Just ordered my first pair of skins for my Deathwishes. I went with the BD Ascension STS. Well, when I went to widen the tip loop to it's max width, I noticed that it's still not very far down the tip of the ski, and just feeling it by hand, slips easily.

    Anyone else have this issue?
    BD makes a bunch of sizes of that tip loop, and even the wide skins come with a skinny one, because dumb. The "oversized" one should fit better.

  19. #1669
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,109
    Quote Originally Posted by AZskibum View Post
    Just ordered my first pair of skins for my Deathwishes. I went with the BD Ascension STS. Well, when I went to widen the tip loop to it's max width, I noticed that it's still not very far down the tip of the ski, and just feeling it by hand, slips easily.

    Anyone else have this issue?
    Honestly you're good dude. When you throw the skins on just stick them on with some tension on the loop, and make sure you run your hand over the top most bit of the skin.
    TLDR; Ski faster. Quit breathing. Don't crash.

  20. #1670
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    34
    Im thinking about getting either the pb&j or the wildcat 108. Wondering which would fit best for me.

    I ski mostly Whistler and other pnw resorts. I have the black ops 118 as my pow ski, I also have a brahma for early season and crap conditions.

    Wondering which of the pb&j wildcat will fit best for me. I imagine I'll use this ski about 50% of the season when my other two aren't more appropriate. Some non pow days I'm mostly on piste with the gf, some days I'm able to get off and ski a bit of everything with better skiers.

    Any thoughts appreciated

  21. #1671
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    1,052
    Quote Originally Posted by AintEZbeingSteezy View Post
    Im thinking about getting either the pb&j or the wildcat 108. Wondering which would fit best for me.

    I ski mostly Whistler and other pnw resorts. I have the black ops 118 as my pow ski, I also have a brahma for early season and crap conditions.

    Wondering which of the pb&j wildcat will fit best for me. I imagine I'll use this ski about 50% of the season when my other two aren't more appropriate. Some non pow days I'm mostly on piste with the gf, some days I'm able to get off and ski a bit of everything with better skiers.

    Any thoughts appreciated
    190cm Wildcat 108 is my daily driver in Tahoe... Pretty fun all the way around--both on and off piste. I've skied the PB&J but not extensively... WC seemed more versatile.

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

  22. #1672
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Truckee & Nor Cal
    Posts
    15,608
    Wildcat 108 is also my daily driver in Tahoe. I do own the PB&J as well, but I'd recommend the WC in this case for sure since you already have some Brahmas.

  23. #1673
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Bay Area / Tahoe
    Posts
    2,463
    Anyone can compare wildcat 108 to Deathwish in general?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  24. #1674
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    1,710
    I'm 6' 165lb, and love the 190 Bibby. If I haven't really ever wanted that to be shorter, am I likely to want more ski than a 184 WC Tour as a dedicated touring ski? I'm definitely skiing slower and more conservatively in the backcountry in general, but the 190 Bibby's aren't the least bit demanding.

  25. #1675
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    X
    Posts
    385
    Quote Originally Posted by HAB View Post
    I'm 6' 165lb, and love the 190 Bibby. If I haven't really ever wanted that to be shorter, am I likely to want more ski than a 184 WC Tour as a dedicated touring ski? I'm definitely skiing slower and more conservatively in the backcountry in general, but the 190 Bibby's aren't the least bit demanding.
    I'm same weight and height, and have had the 190 bibby since 2012 and love it.

    Got 184 WCT this season, and so far so good. Not a tonne of days on them, but haven't felt like they aren't enough ski for what I'm doing.

    Where I tour it's coastal heavy snow and often tighter treed terrain, with less wide open spaces, so perhaps if you have more space/higher end speeds you may opt to go up.

    They are noticeably more playful and "poppy", and I can bend them easier for sure. But like you I ski differently when touring so that character has been a good match so far.

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