Moment Skis Discussion

[MTslackcountry]

I'm sold. Anyone know any 184 WCT 108's that aren't full retail?

PM sent

[joeshek]

WC108s OOS in 184, no preorder date option. Did I wait too long miss the boat for this year, or will there be an inventory reload in December/January?

[Westcoaster]

Anyone have opinions on the wildcat 101? Sort of looking for a more stout bentchetler 100 / rustler 10 class ski. Havent heard much about em since they evolved from the pbj. Profile looks interesting for a 101 waist.

[hot.pocket]

WC108s OOS in 184, no preorder date option. Did I wait too long miss the boat for this year, or will there be an inventory reload in December/January?

Next batch up for pre-order.

[SnakeMagnet]

Anyone have opinions on the wildcat 101? Sort of looking for a more stout bentchetler 100 / rustler 10 class ski. Havent heard much about em since they evolved from the pbj. Profile looks interesting for a 101 waist.

Depends on the model? OG was definitely heavier and more planted. Now? They consolidated the name and length options under wildcat and made the expected transitional improvements to the design, but it's still a contemporary PBJ. Dimensions; mount point; radius, they're all the same from the 19/20 PBJ model. More freestyle than a Rustler, more like a burly, damper chet. I did notice they went with the W108's aspen/ash core over aspen/pine with the re-name (again, consolidation, and tbf that core fucks on the fatty and was 100% the right move) and that added ~50-100g to the weight, but i'm convinced anyone skiing a /20 and /22 b2b and not being a nitpick won't notice a significant difference.

[Poorhouse]

New ski day.
Two pair for Dad, one pair for the kid.

I was torn between WC and DW - Why not both?

[bigdude2468]

New ski day.

++

[CouloirInTheLines]

Depends on the model? OG was definitely heavier and more planted. Now? They consolidated the name and length options under wildcat and made the expected transitional improvements to the design, but it's still a contemporary PBJ. Dimensions; mount point; radius, they're all the same from the 19/20 PBJ model. More freestyle than a Rustler, more like a burly, damper chet. I did notice they went with the W108's aspen/ash core over aspen/pine with the re-name (again, consolidation, and tbf that core fucks on the fatty and was 100% the right move) and that added ~50-100g to the weight, but i'm convinced anyone skiing a /20 and /22 b2b and not being a nitpick won't notice a significant difference.

Helpful feedback. I’d be interested to hear more and hopefully soon we can also get comparisons to the DW 104.

I’m literally looking to replace a pair of 180 BC100s that I use as dadskis/old man park skis. Too short, too light, too loose. Feel like ski blades which is fun sometimes but not always.

I may go narrower with a Fischer Ranger 94 or Black Crows Camox for better firm snow performance, but the 190 WC 101 and DW 104 are both very tempting.

[gluvva]

Hey guys!

Looking to add to the moment quiver for a more firm days out here in western canada. I could get the commander 98 2019/2020 version in a 168 for really good deal. I know they tweaked the ski a few times now since release in 18/19 season. Any impression on that years ski? I am 5'5 160 lbs, would the 168 be a good size?

[MegaStoke]

I couldn’t find the Moment Beer Discussion thread

[Westcoaster]

Anyone got thoughts on the commander tour? Kinda slipped under my radar but looking for a 100osh beef touring ski and the numbers are right.

[MegaStoke]

Anyone got thoughts on the commander tour? Kinda slipped under my radar but looking for a 100osh beef touring ski and the numbers are right.

I just mounted my 182cms up with Voyagers a few days ago but have yet to get out on them. They feel stout though.

[Trefin]

Anyone got thoughts on the commander tour? Kinda slipped under my radar but looking for a 100osh beef touring ski and the numbers are right.

Kinda related, I used to have some first gen commanders I toured with, great when it was firm or chalk and also great on steep powder runs. But zero float in low angle, maybe the new one fixed that problem.


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[iriponsnow]

Hey guys!

Looking to add to the moment quiver for a more firm days out here in western canada. I could get the commander 98 2019/2020 version in a 168 for really good deal. I know they tweaked the ski a few times now since release in 18/19 season. Any impression on that years ski? I am 5'5 160 lbs, would the 168 be a good size?

It’s plenty ski for low tide! Go for it!

[Pinned]

Kinda related, I used to have some first gen commanders I toured with, great when it was firm or chalk and also great on steep powder runs. But zero float in low angle, maybe the new one fixed that problem.


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I have a set of the second gen C98, which I admittedly bought with the intention of skiing on firm snow or in between storms, but they do not float at all. They want to find the bottom and stay there. Locked in on firm snow though.

[gluvva]

I have a set of the second gen C98, which I admittedly bought with the intention of skiing on firm snow or in between storms, but they do not float at all. They want to find the bottom and stay there. Locked in on firm snow though.

How is that second gen? what size ski do you have and your height and weight?

Looking to get the second gen commander 98 as well in a 168. Just want to make sure it is not too much ski.

does it feel overly stiff and difficult to turn unless your going at a decent speed? pretty easy to pivot?

Do you have a comparable ski that you have skied before?

[BWA]

Can anyone speak on the maneuverability of the 190 or maybe 184 Deathwish vs. a 190 Bibby/Wildcat? Currently have 190 Bibbys and 190 Bibby Tours that have basically been my daily drivers for resort and touring in the interior.

I'm looking for something a bit easier that I can use for slower low vis resort days and lift accessed touring at Whistler. I'm planning to mount with Tectons from my tours as it will still be mostly used for touring (60/40ish touring/resort) and hunting out soft snow. The 184s seem quite short but 190s might be too much overlap?

I thought the 190 Bibby Tour would be this ski but found at their weight and stiffness they were a bit harsh and got deflected a lot more than the OG Bibbys in resort conditions and were just as much work in the tight stuff. As a set of big mountain pow touring sticks though they are absolutely epic so they'll be getting some light binders and cherished forever.

[Reformed]

Can anyone speak on the maneuverability of the 190 or maybe 184 Deathwish vs. a 190 Bibby/Wildcat?

I have lots of days on 190 Bibbys and 190 DW. I’m a bit of an outlier, but I never really found the DW to do anything noticeably better than the Bibby. I’ve written on this before in this thread, but I essentially decided that the DW’s potentially incrementally better performance on firm snow wasn’t enough to outweigh its noticeably worse performance in pow/crud/soft snow. DW has always felt more locked in/less loose/like more effort in tight places unless the snow is 2D and firm. If that’s the case I’d rather be on something narrower. YMMV and the DW has legions of rabid fans, but it just never delivered to the same level as the Bibby for me. If I was shopping for a replacement to the DW I’d look at the PBJ/WC101 with the hopes that it’d be a more maneuverable Bibby.

[lemonhead]

I have lots of days on 190 Bibbys and 190 DW. I’m a bit of an outlier, but I never really found the DW to do anything noticeably better than the Bibby. I’ve written on this before in this thread, but I essentially decided that the DW’s potentially incrementally better performance on firm snow wasn’t enough to outweigh its noticeably worse performance in pow/crud/soft snow. DW has always felt more locked in/less loose/like more effort in tight places unless the snow is 2D and firm. If that’s the case I’d rather be on something narrower. YMMV and the DW has legions of rabid fans, but it just never delivered to the same level as the Bibby for me. If I was shopping for a replacement to the DW I’d look at the PBJ/WC101 with the hopes that it’d be a more maneuverable Bibby.

I'll provide the opposite perspective. I have over 150 days on an OG Bibby 190, Currently tour on a 190 WCT, have skied newer wildcat 190s as well. That being said I have in my garage my third pair of 190 DW. My last or second pair was a do it all ski with shifts with a similar use case as BWA pointed out.

Here's my take: In pure pow, a 118 will have more float than a 112. Although I would contend there are a lot of skis in similar width range that may be more fun in completely untouched (194 Ghost Train etc) I have never been on a more versatile POW ski that the WC/Bibby or WCT (for a touring ski). Many blister reviewers have a similar take. However, my favorite ski of all time is the 190 dw. I am not really that big of a dude, 6 feet 160 and I find the versatility of the DW to be all time. I can easily make any turn shape that on want on any condition and still be on top of a 112 ski. I find the DW to be much more fun at lower speeds than a WC. I think the softer flex helps here. I find that I can pivot or carve where on a WC 118 width at least it would rather slarve. If I want to nuke strait lines or massive carves at a high rate of speed at 330 on an inbounds pow day WC for sure. If I want to make a variety of turn shapes and send it on some fluffer nutters and hunt for leftover DW all the way.

[BWA]

Interesting.. really good info guys. It sounds like something like a WC108 (Maybe in 184?) should be on my radar for this use as well but after years on Bibbys it just seems a bit samey. I'm sure regardless of my decision I'll end up with both anyways..

[toast2266]

Can anyone speak on the maneuverability of the 190 or maybe 184 Deathwish vs. a 190 Bibby/Wildcat?

Here's my take. My reference points are: 184 Bibby, 190 Wildcat 108, 184 Bibby Tour, 184 Deathwish, 184 Deathwish Tour.

Both the Bibby and Deathwish are on my short list of favorite skis of all time. If I'm only in soft snow, I like the Bibby better. A little floatier, a little more playful, a little easier to slarve around. But as conditions become more variable and less deep, I like the Deathwish more. I feel like the Deathwish can be skied two different ways - you can put your weight forward and drive the ski, and that works pretty well. You can also stand upright and pivot the ski around the middle camber node, and that works great too. So when the snow is variable, you can adapt to that by varying how you ski the Deathwish. The Bibby on the other hand is less conducive to varying your style of skiing, but it handles variable conditions really well by virtue of it's shape and flex. So it's kind of just two different ways to approach the same problem; adapt to the conditions with the Deathwish, or bludgeon the conditions into submission with the Bibby. Each approach will work better or worse depending on your preferences and the specific conditions you're adapting to.

As a side note, I was less excited about the Bibby Tour. The original Bibby was so good because of how it handles variable conditions, and that didn't quite translate as well for me in the Bibby Tour. The same goes for the WC 108 - I wanted to love it, but instead I mostly just thought it was ok. Not bad, but not an enduring love affair like the original Bibby. The Deathwish Tour, on the other hand, is awesome. Favorite touring ski ever, mostly because of how well it handles a wide variety of conditions. It's less good than the Bibby Tour in legit pow, but better everywhere else.

[Flippo]

For resort skiing the Deathwish 104 makes a lot of sense in complement of the Wildcat.

[TeleBeaver]

I feel like the Deathwish can be skied two different ways - you can put your weight forward and drive the ski, and that works pretty well. You can also stand upright and pivot the ski around the middle camber node, and that works great too. So when the snow is variable, you can adapt to that by varying how you ski the Deathwish.

This. The deathwish is like having two different skis on your feet. Lean forward and bite on firm snow, stand up straight and pivot in soft stuff. Whether this is what you want or need is a different question, but I would say they are a bit more forgiving than a bibby (though I have like 3 runs on a 190cm demo bibby to compare to 60+ days on 190cm DW).

[Pinned]

How is that second gen? what size ski do you have and your height and weight?

Looking to get the second gen commander 98 as well in a 168. Just want to make sure it is not too much ski.

does it feel overly stiff and difficult to turn unless your going at a decent speed? pretty easy to pivot?

Do you have a comparable ski that you have skied before?

I don't have enough time on the C98 to give you a really comprehensive review, but here are my observations after a few days. I'm 5'11, 175 and I've got 176s. My other skis, for comparison, are Wildcats / Wildcat 108s in a 184.

The Commanders are definitely on the shorter end for me but the intent was to use them mainly for New England skiing and tighter trees - thus far I've only skied them a few days at Mammoth though, swapping back and forth with my WC108s.

By comparison the C98 isn't pivoty or surfy. They aren't particularly difficult to turn, they ski a lot like other skis I've been on with stiff / flat tails. I'm not folding them up or anything, but they aren't insanely stiff either. They need a bit of speed to feel alive, maybe a little more than the WC. I think the 182 probably would have been a better bet for me if I were going to keep skiing these out west, but I'll see how they are on the east coast before I make that decision.

[Sargentdrufus]

+1 to what has been said about the DW/DWT when it comes to variable / unknown conditions, and the ability it has to be skied with driving in the front stance, or centered and pivot around everything stance. The one caveat is that in powder, you'll get the most out of the DW with a centered stance, as if you try to drive the tips in pow they can dive a bit. (Though it can make for some fun dolphin style popping in and out of the pow) But you can ski it really fast in powder with that centered stance

Concerning float, yes there are floatier skis out there; however, that being said, the DW/DWT is still a double rockered progressively mounted 112mm wide ski, it has more than adequate float to surf around and make the mountain your playground when conditions are soft, and when they aren't, you can still make the mountain your playground because triple camber is just that awesome.