Shift fail or ?

[iriponsnow]

Ok here goes the 2019 iriponsnow public flogging:

I took 2 mellow runs with my new Shifts & managed to pull the housing off the hardware. Posting as I think it’s a possible safety issue related to ski flex allowing this to occur.

I’ve shared w a few select industry folks & got a real unimpressive “it’s either a flawed mount or YOU did something wrong abusing the gear.”



The mount looks legit & was done via a reputable shop.

[margotron]

Shop fucked up. Take the toe off entirely and show us the mount. But 99% sure the shop boned the install


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[I've seen black diamonds!]

Certainly looks like a bad mount. What makes you think otherwise?

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[iriponsnow]

[margotron]

Certainly looks like a bad mount. What makes you think otherwise?

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Yah. OP take off the toe and measure from each set of holes to the next. We'll all then compare that to the actual mount pattern. Below is the shift toe mount pattern


1

2 3

4 5


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[iriponsnow]

Certainly looks like a bad mount. What makes you think otherwise?

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When the housing is on the hardware, the unit is snug & the Dremel bit here is in the mount hole. It’s as far back as it can possibly go.

[iriponsnow]

My best available measurement

[iriponsnow]

1 to 2/3 = 2.5 inches

2/3 to 4/5 = 2 &7/8th

[SkiLyft]

This is interesting, I still think that there is A LOT of stress on those front 3 screws. If your mount is not dialed I bet there will be more pullouts. I wish those back 2 hidden screws contributed to a more solid mount. Once again speculating here. How much flex is there in those skis?

[::: :::]

in your first photo, it appears that the toe screw (#1) got pulled out during a flex

did the fastener pull thru the binding plastic?

i'm not following the hole spacing/pattern check...doesn't seem relevant? (i'm just a dentist)

[SkiLyft]

My best available measurement

Can you print the shift template on the Official Shift Thread and overlay it?

[SkiLyft]

in your first photo, it appears that the toe screw (#1) got pulled out during a flex

did the fastener pull thru the binding plastic?

i'm not following the hole spacing/pattern check...doesn't seem relevant? (i'm just a dentist)

The part of the shift that interfaces with the front nubbin's is metal. However if they mounted the front screw too far back it would not have been fully locked in.

[tuco]

Photo of bottom of toe piece?
Particularly the area that slides over front post(#1)

[::: :::]

The part of the shift that interfaces with the front nubbin's is metal. However if they mounted the front screw too far back it would not have been fully locked in.

gotcha, thx

[iriponsnow]

Photo of bottom of toe piece?
Particularly the area that slides over front post(#1)

[iriponsnow]

Can you print the shift template on the Official Shift Thread and overlay it?

Perhaps tomorrow

[iriponsnow]

This is interesting, I still think that there is A LOT of stress on those front 3 screws. If your mount is not dialed I bet there will be more pullouts. I wish those back 2 hidden screws contributed to a more solid mount. Once again speculating here. How much flex is there in those skis?

There’s a TON of flex in the WhiteDot R98’s

[reckless toboggan]

If you flex the ski enough, the binding housing would slip off the little nubbin.

It seems like you'd have to flex the ski a shit tonne, but would think it's possible with that design.

A bottom plate with a longer slot to recieved the nubbin could be a relatively cheap and easy fix for Salomon, if that's the case.

Another solution might be to make a nubbin with an oval shape with the longest axis of the oval perpendicular to the ski length. Turn binding 90 degrees, slip over oval nubbin, rotate back 90 degrees, pull binding backward on the ski and screw down the other screws. Then when the ski flexed, the wider part of the oval nubbin wouldn't actually even be able to come out of the hole in the metal bottom plate hole. Probably even cheaper for Salomon, if that's the case.

[iriponsnow]

It’s not loose...... best angle I can get here to line em up.

It’s also been suggested that the drill clutch caught early & failed to allow screws 2/3 to fully go in. I guess that’s possible- yet I think it would have to be super lose & something I completely missed on pre ski inspection.

[thecazdog]

I did maybe 30 days on on Shifts over the southern season, and have had no problems. Having said that, I use epoxied inserts and stiff-ish skis.

I wish the toe piece interface was simple like that of the heel - you need 3 types of screws and a moderate amount of fucking around to change toe pieces.

Overlay comparison will be interesting. Curious to see if this can be replicated.

[::: :::]

It’s not loose...... best angle I can get here to line em up.

It’s also been suggested that the drill clutch caught early & failed to allow screws 2/3 to fully go in. I guess that’s possible- yet I think it would have to be super lose & something I completely missed on pre ski inspection.

it looks like screws 2 & 3 got pulled off axis towards the front during the release...the holes appear to be dented/elongated towards the front

that slot length doesn't look all that long at all

[iriponsnow]

that slot length doesn't look all that long at all

Thanks my thinking here. Now the ski is softer & my boot is only a 24, so I can get considerable flex out of the system.

[reckless toboggan]

If it is the ski flexing and the nubbin slipping out of the slot, then the next two screw would rip out pretty easily. And for the ski to flex enough to do that, the other two screws would be pulled out at a forward angle towards the tip of the ski.

However, the only way I could see there being enough flex would be if some kind of transverse wave of shock went through the ski, like if you hit the tip head on into a tree, causing a rippling wave toward the binding.

Not saying it was the nubbin, the slot, or a transverse ripple shock through the ski, just wildly speculating. Obviously.

[reckless toboggan]

Thanks my thinking here. Now the ski is softer & my boot is only a 24, so I can get considerable flex out of the system.

Can you go put your boot in the good binding on the other ski and do a big flex test to see if there's binding lift as the ski flexes/arcs against it?

[iriponsnow]

Can you go put your boot in the good binding on the other ski and do a big flex test to see if there's binding lift as the ski flexes/arcs against it?

This is TGR meets the ScienceGuy:



When I hand flex the good ski with the boot in & place a wad of play dough in front of the binding, you can see a good amount of forward motion into the play dough & this is simply hand flexing.

Thoughts?