Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 33

Thread: School me on XC

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Cruzing
    Posts
    9,122

    School me on XC

    So my good buddyís wife calls me and says she wants to hook up her hubby with XC gear for Christmas. She started looking into it, but got over whelmed.

    He has a place at Kirkwood and has kick and skate track right outside his home. He has little no experience with XC but is an solid alpine skier.

    What type of gear should she be looking for? How do you size the ski? Boot types?

    He is not going to get serious, but he might choose to XC instead of downhill with conditions are firm.

    What does one need to know when buying?

    Thanks for any help here.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Shuswap Highlands
    Posts
    2,340

    School me on XC

    Looking at classic or skate/freestyle? You can get hybrid boots for both styles, but dedicated discipline boots are far better. Like all skiing, get the boots that fit, once you decide on a binding system. I am a fan of the salomon SNS system for both classic and skate, but NNN systems are fine.
    Classic skis must be selected to match the camber and the skierís weight. Even weighting both skis and a business card should be able to slide the entirety of the kickwax pocket; weighted for kick only under the ball of the foot should the card be able to slide. Waxless is slower, but a whole lot less hassle than skis that need kick wax. Skate skis should be as short as possible, while still holding camber with even weighting on both skis. For comparison I am 187cm tall and 100kg, my classic skis are around 215cm, my skate skis are 175cm.
    Poles for classic will reach the armpits, skate should be about shoulder height or even a touch taller.
    Edit to add: For a newb just learning technique, consider a softer camber for classic as it will allow a more consistent/successful kick. If you are not fully weighting the kick ski, assuming proper camber as I described above, someone just learning is more likely to not engage the kick pocket and slip. Can be very frustrating when starting out.

    If you really want to go cheap retro, score a nice set of leather 3pin duckbills that fit like slippers, put on some voile 3pin mountaineers on a set of thriftstore waxless classic skis and poles, and hit the town.
    Last edited by BCMtnHound; 12-19-2018 at 08:18 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bottom feeding
    Posts
    7,137

    School me on XC

    ^^^ pretty much what he said, but we donít bother doing classic anymore, even if thereís a lot of ungroomed new snow.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,233
    Wtf dar language
    I started a dating advice app because I always need advice
    ó
    Charmed Chat lets you tinder for your friends

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    5,393
    Recommend the wife to buy anything but XC equipment, wtf. Ha. Your friend will thank you.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    OW
    Posts
    608
    Quote Originally Posted by BCMtnHound View Post
    For comparison I am 187cm tall and 100kg, my classic skis are around 215cm, my skate skis are 175cm.
    This is interesting to read. I am similarly sized and my classic skis are about that length. I have been looking for a used setup to give skating a try but from everything that I have read, they recommend that I should be looking for a skate ski in the 190-200 cm range. What do you suggest for a beginner (also old and not so nimble) skater?

    Is there some sort of standard of camber stiffness to help in choosing skis or do you just need to try them?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    4,274
    Quote Originally Posted by patxi View Post
    This is interesting to read. I am similarly sized and my classic skis are about that length. I have been looking for a used setup to give skating a try but from everything that I have read, they recommend that I should be looking for a skate ski in the 190-200 cm range. What do you suggest for a beginner (also old and not so nimble) skater?

    Is there some sort of standard of camber stiffness to help in choosing skis or do you just need to try them?
    The brands provide guidance about lengths for models based on weight.

    Ottime, maybe a good recommendation for your friend would be to buy a skate lesson and demo package. Skate skiing techniques are different than skating on alpine gear.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,375
    ^^^ Good bridge bodywhonper just suggested.

    Following this thread as I live in blizzard-land Japan and every year think of buying an XC setup for a morning jog in the pow covered fields around my neighborhood before work.

    Right now I just shovel and take walks. But I do wish I had a kit.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    5,560
    Recommend she buys a package from LL Bean or similar for a total newb. He doesnít need anything fancy to get started and their customer service folks will set her right up.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    709
    Iíd go skate 100% over classic


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wasatch
    Posts
    5,219
    I tried XC with my my wife and next time I will bring my fat bike. But #2 post is very accurate with my experience
    I need to go to Utah.
    Utah?
    Yeah, Utah. It's wedged in between Wyoming and Nevada. You've seen pictures of it, right?

    So after 15 years we finally made it to Utah.....


    Thanks BCSAR and POWMOW Ski Patrol for rescues

    8, 17, 13, 18, 16, 18, 20, 19, 16

    2018/2019 (24/32)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    8,203
    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    Recommend the wife to buy anything but XC equipment, wtf. Ha. Your friend will thank you.
    Nailed it.^

    But if you have to, tell her to buy him some rental/lesson packages as a gift and let him decide what/if he likes.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Kilpisjšrvi, Finland
    Posts
    805
    Quote Originally Posted by gaijin View Post
    ^^^ Good bridge bodywhonper just suggested.

    Following this thread as I live in blizzard-land Japan and every year think of buying an XC setup for a morning jog in the pow covered fields around my neighborhood before work.

    Right now I just shovel and take walks. But I do wish I had a kit.
    https://varuste.net/en/OAC+Kar+147+%...hoes?_tu=53603 that would be way better in powder snow. And you don't need specific boots.

    Sent from my FIG-LX1 using TGR Forums mobile app

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Cruzing
    Posts
    9,122

    School me on XC

    I think this guy will like XC. Not really for my. Iíd rather AT and make turns. But he is often up there working on the cabin and would use the gear for a lunch time exercise break. Just like how heíd take a bike lap in summer.

    I like the idea of demo; going to suggest that. Maybe even two days of rentals/lessons. One skate, one classic to see which he prefers.

    LL Bean sounds like a smart move. He just needs some basic gear. Doubt he will even ever upgrade.

    Sounds like skate is the way to go. Iíd expect him to be doing this on days that are form set mid winter. And possibly mornings in the spring when KW closed down and he is up for the weekend sans family to get shit done around the house.

    For those skate over classic - why? More fun? Easier? Better exercise? Faster?

    I reallly donít understand XC. And I did a lot of classic as a kid in upstate NY. Also remember enjoying it. But that was mostly because it was the one thing I got to do with my dad. And we had snow right out the door for months each year.
    Last edited by Ottime; 12-21-2018 at 08:37 AM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    kinda halfway twixt NH & CO
    Posts
    790
    Quote Originally Posted by Ottime View Post
    I think this guy will like XC. Not really for my. Iíd rather AT and make turns. But he is often up there working on the cabin and would use the gear for a lunch time exercise break. Just like how heíd take a bike lap in summer.

    I like the idea of demo, but doubt theyíd go that route. Personalities. But Iím definitely going to suggest that. Maybe even two days of rentals/lessons. One skate, one classic to see which he prefers.

    LL Bean sounds like a smart move. He just needs some basic gear. Doubt he will even ever upgrade.

    Sounds like skate is the way to go. Iíd expect him to be doing this on days that are form set mid winter. And possibly mornings in the spring when KW closed down and he is up for the weekend sans family to get shit done around the house.

    For those skate over classic - why? More fun? Easier? Better exercise? Faster?

    I reallly donít understand XC. And I did a lot of classic as a kid in upstate NY. Also remember enjoying it. But that was mostly because it was the one thing I got to do with my dad. And we had snow right out the door for months each year.
    Skating is more like running. Classic can be as vigorous or not as you like. There is a Zen quality to classic kick and glide. Skating was an innovation that grew out of a desire to go faster. If speed is the only criterium then go for skating. If it's for fun and/or exercise don't write off the way people have been skiing for thousands of years. One doesn't need a prepared track for classic either

    Sent from my Pixel using TGR Forums mobile app

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Bozeman
    Posts
    681

    School me on XC

    Quote Originally Posted by Ottime View Post
    For those skate over classic - why? More fun? Easier? Better exercise? Faster?.
    Iíd say itís more fun (although thatís personal preference), better exercise in a shorter amount of time and significantly faster.

    One way to think about it is classic the way for people to get outside that are old, fat, slow or insanely strong and fast. Classic gives you more range to choose how hard you want to push. Skate I think kind of requires you to go harder and faster most of the time.

    Is your buddy the kind of guy that likes to push it going uphill on bikes, skis or running? Does the guy enjoy strenuous exercise? Then def go skate.



    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    cow hampshire
    Posts
    4,336
    Quote Originally Posted by Ottime View Post

    For those skate over classic - why? More fun? Easier? Better exercise? Faster?
    Faster. Like going for a run. The fact he has a skate track is critical. I wish I had one locally.

    But if he likes to break trail and just f around in the woods, then a fatter traditional ski would be better. I would personally have two set ups if I had a place in Kirkwood along with the bc alpine set up of course.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    6,007
    What everyone else says

    Skate = road bike, running, tights, etc. It is a ridiculous workout

    XC in a track = old people getting fresh air or

    Metal edge off piste XC = dog walking, exploring, weed smoking, getting out in the woods

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    4,274
    If they go the route of buying gear, getting knowledgeable customer service at a shop is a mixed bag. Some shops may carry the gear and have no staff that really know what they are talking about. I know that Berkeley sports basement assistant GM/head ski tech knows his shit. Iím sure there are other staff at other Bay Area shops with almost similar knowledge, but probably not too many.

    Iíd say that skate skiing is a cross of running and road cycling. In spring conditions, people skate ski early and tour or alpine ski once things soften up.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    the big dirty
    Posts
    683
    Classic is good if there is fresh snow or recently groomed, shitty if the tracks get icy (from melt-freeze). Skate is good if the trails are groomed, or corn snow, shitty if there is fresh snow or if the trail is REALLY icy.

    Classic: definitely get skin skis. The ones with climbing skin material in the kick zone rather than the fishscales or requiring kick wax. Very versatile, and just grab and go, no prep required. Most manufacturers have a weight chart to get you into the right size ballpark.

    Skate skis: If your buddy is between the 60-80kg range, try to get a pair of skis from a racer. The going rate for used top end skis is like $200-$300. Buying new, that $ gets you the low end. Again, check the manufacturer weight chart. If you don't want to look like a gaper, learn the V2/1-skate technique, not just the offset/2-skate hybrid that XC JONGs do.

    Boots: Get ones with the NNN/prolink sole. Most options for integrated bindings, and Salomon/Atomic now makes boots/bindings for this one. Combi/Pursuit/Skiathlon boots are OK, lots of racers selling these for cheap after using them for 1-2 races. The sole won't be as stiff as a true skate boot, and won't be as flexible as a true classic boot.

    Poles: XC-ers can be dorks about poles, with some costing ~$500. I find the cheaper composite ones ~$50 to be sufficient. My skate poles are 15cm longer than my classic poles, so I don't think I would want to use a single pair for both!


  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Shuswap Highlands
    Posts
    2,340
    I love having both styles of xc. I walk the dog around the neighbourhood, making my own trail, with a waxless classic set from the consignment store. When there is 10cm of white stuff on the local streets and trails, this is a daily exercise. The groomed trails nearby I prefer to skate, especially when the youngster was still in the chariot. The beauty is that you can buy new, recreational quality gear, for about 5bills, so for the price of a new alpine setup, you can enjoy both classic and skate. Go to the consignment store and outfit the whole family for far less than a family season alpine pass.

    Quote Originally Posted by patxi View Post
    This is interesting to read. I am similarly sized and my classic skis are about that length. I have been looking for a used setup to give skating a try but from everything that I have read, they recommend that I should be looking for a skate ski in the 190-200 cm range. What do you suggest for a beginner (also old and not so nimble) skater?

    Is there some sort of standard of camber stiffness to help in choosing skis or do you just need to try them?
    It all depends on your experience/technique and the stiffness of the individual ski. A shorter ski is easier to control, especially at high speeds on a downhill corner, or climbing a steep pitch. The more camber in the ski (which usually translates to more length), the more power that is released in your stride, but a strong technique is needed to control them when the trail gets spicy. Our local groomed trails for skate are on old logging trails, with lots of curves, elevation, and steep rolls, so I prefer mine shorter and sacrifice a bit of camber. If I skied more regularly on a golf course or was a serious racer, then a more powerful ski would be preferred.
    I havenít found brands or even skis within a brand to be completely consistent; you always have to check the camber on each ski you are interested in. For me, a camber pocket about 5cm above the toe to about 10cm behind my heel (size 12 US) seems to be my sweet spot for skate.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Western MT
    Posts
    1,341
    Quote Originally Posted by skiitsbetter View Post

    Classic: definitely get skin skis. The ones with climbing skin material in the kick zone rather than the fishscales or requiring kick wax. Very versatile, and just grab and go, no prep required. Most manufacturers have a weight chart to get you into the right size ballpark.
    Strongly disagree with that statement unless he just wants to poke around the hills. Waxless/skins are way less efficient than waxing, but I would go with waxless over skins. With waxless you can still prep the waxless area with wax (assuming sintered) or spray if non-sintered.

    edit: okay, so it's been a while since I looked at classic nordic skis and I see Fischer now has their Skintec tecnology which is different than skis like the Altai Hok which is what I thought you were referring to. Skintec looks pretty interesting actually, but I think waxable would still be the best option (for cold dry climates) as far as efficiency / better grip, climbing, etc. 2 wax system covers everything for me pretty much and with wax you have options for adjusting the grip/glide.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bottom feeding
    Posts
    7,137
    Sounds like the OPís friend is an athlete who wants to get out for a workout at lunch on groomed. This equals skate skis. KW charges $65 for a rental with a lesson, (it looks like), he should check that out, or borrow if he knows someone, then buy some used stuff if he likes it and doesnít want to spend a lot of $.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Western MT
    Posts
    1,341
    Quote Originally Posted by plugboots View Post
    Sounds like the OPís friend is an athlete who wants to get out for a workout at lunch on groomed. This equals skate skis. KW charges $65 for a rental with a lesson, (it looks like), he should check that out, or borrow if he knows someone, then buy some used stuff if he likes it and doesnít want to spend a lot of $.
    I think this sounds like the right option.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    off on yet another Tangent
    Posts
    2,691
    Quote Originally Posted by Ottime View Post
    For those skate over classic - why? More fun? Easier? Better exercise? Faster?
    It's all good. Skating is a total body workout in less time. It's kinda like riding a road bike with cadence and limited variables. You need a groomed trail system. It's awesome on a 1/2" of corn over crust anywhere you can find it.

    XC Classic can be track oriented through 'rugged touring'. BC-NNN/rugged touring gear is kinda like mountain biking where you can go anywhere in highly variable conditions and terrain. This is where I spend most my time (when there's snow). It's the quickest, most versatile option and offers more freedom on more days right out the door or anywhere to 'get away and workout' on snow.....even on limited snow, like 8 to 12".

    If track oriented, I'd skate. If not consider a BC-NNN rig, not light classic gear. BC-NNN/rugged touring gear utilizes wider skis with edges and more ankle support. Turns are a limited option, but depends on the pilot, terrain and gear. There is quite a range of widths and 'beefiness'. But all are lighter than AT gear.

    Self propelled Nordic/XC skiing definitely gets you to appreciated good waxing habits and focus. Skating, especially. XC Classic waxing is an art. Patterned based or fish scaled (aka waxless) XC skis still need tip and tail glide wax and paste or liquid wax in the kick zone to minimize icing and clumping.
    Best regards, Terry
    (Direct Contact is best vs PMs)

    SlideWright.com
    Ski, Snowboard & Bike Tools, Wax and Wares
    Repair, Waxing, Tuning, Mounting Tips & more
    Paste 5% TGR Discount code during checkout: 1121TGR
    BIKE TOOL BLOW OUT!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •