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  1. #101
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    Jan 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by californiagrown View Post
    ... Problem is, no experienced folks want to be bogged down by a newbie so its tough to hook up with a mentor as you don't want to blow their day b/c you're slow and inexperienced, and they don't want to waste a good day babysitting me. ....
    This isn't my experience. Multiple times this year I've gone out with people much more experienced then me (i.e. SAR guy with 800+ days of bc touring, an avy 2 former patroller with lots of bc experience) based on simple internet-based requests. But it is putting in leg work on various platforms to find these people, being flexible on their schedules, etc. The reality is though there are more newbies than experienced people -- which means you've got to excell at are where other newbies fail.

    The things that they seem to care about aren't whether you're an expert in terrain selection or have an AVY2, its stuff you do without that. Show up on time, with skins on, transition fast, keep up a good pace, ask questions, study a CalTopo of the area, be able to recite (or have written down) the avy forecast for the day, be realistic about your fitness (both pace and total ability to climb), don't bitch about the snow, the weather, the skintrack or the skiing.

  2. #102
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    Sep 2008
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    Not Brooklyn
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    6,062
    In response to californiagrown:

    Hire a guide for a day and tell him/her what you want help with? Share cost with friends?

    Also do lot of homework. Learn how to determine slope angle on a topo. Use slope angle overlay tools to look at familiar ski zones to start developing an intuitive sense of slope angle.

    When you're out touring measure slope angle like a maniac. Use hand held tools to measure small features and a surveying-type app like Dioptra to measure large slopes. After a while you can judge slope angle within a few degrees by looking. Go nuts with a compass too and note how small terrain features can create large changes in aspect.

    Don't forget that a 38 degree slope above you can be just as deadly as one below you. Run outs should scare you, especially in busy areas. Convex rollovers should scare the shit out of you.

    Then think about consequences. Even when slides are unlikely, stay away from slopes where a massive slide is possible, as well as funnel-shaped slopes where a small slide could bury you deep.
    Last edited by I've seen black diamonds!; 12-18-2018 at 12:35 PM.

  3. #103
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    Oct 2005
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    Sandy
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    Quote Originally Posted by subtle plague View Post
    Maybe my sarcasm meter is off, but are you kidding me?
    This is the picture of a avie level moderate slide with the mentioned problem "possibly big avalanches" in Austria in 2017. One of the guys was found 12 meters deep. Deadly dead, obviously. Klar on this board skied that face regularly, but they decided against it that winter because it was so big. If you trigger something, which is not very likely, it can get big. And it did, eventually.

    I think it's the 'this avalanche will kill you more dead than this one'.
    When life gives you haters, make haterade.

  4. #104
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
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    5,986
    Maybe us selfish fucks should consider mentoring part of our responsibility to the sport instead of pointing to the other guy? I think professional avalanche education is important but I do not think of it as comprehensive training for backcountry skiing.

  5. #105
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    Aug 2007
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Pretty straightforward, hype needed?
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  6. #106
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Ogden
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    5,544
    I'd say half of the people that I've toured with this year have been either brand new or less than a year of experience. I enjoy being a mentor because it probably helps me as much as it helps them. I find that verbalizing all of the things I'm thinking of with them helps keep me sharp and reminds me why/what I'm looking for.

    I don't even mind if they aren't super proficient with their new gear, I'll give tips on how I skin, transition and dress. I was and still am mentored by people more experienced than me and I'm willing to pay that back.

    What I really care about with new people is fitness and actual ability to ski. Both are safety issues that I can't teach.

  7. #107
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    Dec 2003
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    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by plugboots View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Pretty straightforward, hype needed?
    I was half expecting extreme...

    (BTW I couldn't make those NWAC sessions. I'll try and figure out another way)
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  8. #108
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    Dec 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    I'd say half of the people that I've toured with this year have been either brand new or less than a year of experience. I enjoy being a mentor because it probably helps me as much as it helps them. I find that verbalizing all of the things I'm thinking of with them helps keep me sharp and reminds me why/what I'm looking for.

    I don't even mind if they aren't super proficient with their new gear, I'll give tips on how I skin, transition and dress. I was and still am mentored by people more experienced than me and I'm willing to pay that back.

    What I really care about with new people is fitness and actual ability to ski. Both are safety issues that I can't teach.

    I love mentoring as well. It totally helps to explain your observations and thoughts. The using of skins, crampons (necessary here) and uphilling through very difficult terrain and long day energy management has been the big issue with newbies for me. I think around 90% of newbies I've taken out don't make it past the first climb up and out of the ski area here. We get some serious rime and ice up high as well as thin and rocky conditions. It's tough to take on total green people for a tour, especially when it's gonna be a banger day and those can be very few and far between. Then again, I often have to take out newbies for a partner since I only have a few regular partners that aren't always available.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  9. #109
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    Sep 2009
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    PE, Mechanical Engineering
    University of Bridger Bowl Alumnus
    Alpental Creeper

  10. #110
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    At 43 years old now my feelings on bc skiing have changed quite a bit. I'm not willing to risk very much and the thought of being buried terrifies me. It's just not an option imo.

    The best part is being more than ok with calling it and turning around. Skiing pow is fun and all but it's not worth dying for.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  11. #111
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    Dec 2003
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    "Don't be over confident just because you hadn't seen any natural avalanche or snow movement over the past few days."

    Shakes head.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post

    Shakes head.....
    Exactly.
    PE, Mechanical Engineering
    University of Bridger Bowl Alumnus
    Alpental Creeper

  13. #113
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    Sep 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    Skiing pow is fun and all but it's not worth dying for.
    Skiing 25 degree pow on fat skis with friends and dogs doesn't suck either.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds! View Post
    Skiing 25 degree pow on fat skis with friends and dogs doesn't suck either.
    Right?!
    And... what was Kyle thinking?
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  15. #115
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    Jan 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds! View Post
    Skiing 25 degree pow on fat skis with friends and dogs doesn't suck either.
    #25Degrees is gonna be my new IG tag after last weekend. 25 degree meadows + 25 degrees warm is pretty much a damn good day in the bc.

  16. #116
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    Dec 2011
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    4,867
    Quote Originally Posted by zion zig zag View Post
    I'd say half of the people that I've toured with this year have been either brand new or less than a year of experience. I enjoy being a mentor because it probably helps me as much as it helps them. I find that verbalizing all of the things I'm thinking of with them helps keep me sharp and reminds me why/what I'm looking for.

    I don't even mind if they aren't super proficient with their new gear, I'll give tips on how I skin, transition and dress. I was and still am mentored by people more experienced than me and I'm willing to pay that back.

    What I really care about with new people is fitness and actual ability to ski. Both are safety issues that I can't teach.
    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    At 43 years old now my feelings on bc skiing have changed quite a bit. I'm not willing to risk very much and the thought of being buried terrifies me. It's just not an option imo.

    The best part is being more than ok with calling it and turning around. Skiing pow is fun and all but it's not worth dying for.
    Quote Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds! View Post
    Skiing 25 degree pow on fat skis with friends and dogs doesn't suck either.
    Quote Originally Posted by doebedoe View Post
    #25Degrees is gonna be my new IG tag after last weekend. 25 degree meadows + 25 degrees warm is pretty much a damn good day in the bc.

    All of this.

    However, ski area hike/skin to slackcountry is still well within my risk tolerance to charge bigger harder lines. Always has been. Probably due to more traffic/skier stabilization of the snowpack over the season, and many more reports/data points from people I trust. Obviously, avoiding best I can the "I know the area", "I've skied it a hundred times", complacency and other traps that may be associated. Additionally, in the areas I ski, more and more and more slackcountry is being avy controlled/mitigated (obviously nothing is 100%), so I've got that going for me, which is nice. Also, I'm spoiled having the Pass so close, with all of the data points, friends, professionals, and associated attention to almost every inch of that place.
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    the situation strikes me as WAY too much drama at this point

  17. #117
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    May 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds! View Post
    Learn how to determine slope angle on a topo. Use slope angle overlay tools to look at familiar ski zones to start developing an intuitive sense of slope angle.

    When you're out touring measure slope angle like a maniac. Use hand held tools to measure small features and a surveying-type app like Dioptra to measure large slopes. After a while you can judge slope angle within a few degrees by looking. Go nuts with a compass too
    .
    To be perfectly honest I think this advice is totally useless. In 20 years the only time I have ever measured slope angle or pulled out a compass is when I had to on the CAA forms for my Opps 1.

    If you are out ski touring who cares if a slope is 30 or 37.5 or 40 degrees. It doesnt matter. All of those can and do produce slides.

    All you need to do is OPEN YOUR EYES. If it looks steep enough that snow could physically slide on it, then its steep enough to slide. It's also pretty damn obvious what direction the wind was coming from. Look at what side of trees are rimed. What direction does the wind marks on the snow point? Wind ALWAYS deposits snow downwind. Same with Solar. None of this is rocket science.

    Start paying attention to what slopes always slide around your local area. Thats a great place to start building up a mental reference. (hint, most black runs are steep enough to produce slides) If you cant determine the above with just using your eyes then you are best of skiing around in resort until you can.

    Where this all becomes difficult is analyzing how the weather interacts with micro aka mini golf terrain features. 99% of topo maps are also useless for this.

    What the classes all lack is interpreting snow test results to real world terrain. For example, you have a hoar frost layer in your pit, well then best way to deal with that is to stay off of big, planer slopes. Best to stick with supported broken up terrain. You have that same hoar layer with sudden fracture characteristics, then you better go find an area free of that layer, as even broken up supported terrain is going to be an issue.

  18. #118
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    Sep 2007
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    Schruns
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    663
    Quote Originally Posted by snoqpass View Post
    Hes done some really cool stuff in the mountains but the Mt Si thing was nothing more than a publicity stunt
    High profile guides get better bookings. It should be ok that a professional seeks to raise their profile.

    *I know nothing of the individual event in question.

  19. #119
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    Dec 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRainey View Post
    High profile guides get better bookings. It should be ok that a professional seeks to raise their profile.

    *I know nothing of the individual event in question.
    I was thinking it made sense as a move to gain more clients. Everybody's gotta eat.
    dirtbag, not a dentist

  20. #120
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    Dec 2003
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    Seattle
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona13 View Post
    I was thinking it made sense as a move to gain more clients. Everybody's gotta eat.
    It got published in a small town's free newspaper... it's not like the guy was trying for a Red Bull sponsorship.

    And if it pissed off TAY... good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  21. #121
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    May 2007
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    Mt. Baker
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    It pissed off TAY... good.
    If those guys spent a fraction of the time they do bitching.... then they might actually become good skiers. They seem to get riled up about just about anything they can think of. Too bad, because I think in concept its a great site, but cant stand the climate on that board.

  22. #122
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    north aspect
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    35,092
    Silas is ok
    bF
    Alpental Indigenous

  23. #123
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    Dec 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by flowing alpy View Post
    Silas is ok
    Talking about social media overhype.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  24. #124
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    Sep 2008
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    Not Brooklyn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunder View Post
    To be perfectly honest I think this advice is totally useless. In 20 years the only time I have ever measured slope angle or pulled out a compass is when I had to on the CAA forms for my Opps 1.

    If you are out ski touring who cares if a slope is 30 or 37.5 or 40 degrees. It doesnt matter. All of those can and do produce slides.

    All you need to do is OPEN YOUR EYES. If it looks steep enough that snow could physically slide on it, then its steep enough to slide. It's also pretty damn obvious what direction the wind was coming from. Look at what side of trees are rimed. What direction does the wind marks on the snow point? Wind ALWAYS deposits snow downwind. Same with Solar. None of this is rocket science.

    Start paying attention to what slopes always slide around your local area. Thats a great place to start building up a mental reference. (hint, most black runs are steep enough to produce slides) If you cant determine the above with just using your eyes then you are best of skiing around in resort until you can.

    Where this all becomes difficult is analyzing how the weather interacts with micro aka mini golf terrain features. 99% of topo maps are also useless for this.

    What the classes all lack is interpreting snow test results to real world terrain. For example, you have a hoar frost layer in your pit, well then best way to deal with that is to stay off of big, planer slopes. Best to stick with supported broken up terrain. You have that same hoar layer with sudden fracture characteristics, then you better go find an area free of that layer, as even broken up supported terrain is going to be an issue.
    I don't disagree that one may be able to develop sense of what is likely to slide without measuring a whole bunch of slopes, but I maintain that a few days where you do a whole bunch of measuring can lead to lifetime of being pretty good at estimating slope angle at a glance, especially with a bit of practice at the beginning of each season.

    I also disagree that 30 degrees and 38 degrees are the same. They're not:

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    It's certainly is good to know "what slopes always slide around your local area," but the problem with founding your decision making too firmly on this is that it may lead to confidence in slopes that usually don't slide but may be dangerous with unusual weather or snow pack. Plus, when you travel to unfamiliar areas the mountains don't look the same. There may be no rime on the trees. The snowpack follows different rules. But If you plan a tour where it's possible to stay on or retreat to slopes that are under 30 degrees you can stay pretty darn safe even in unfamiliar environs. Topos and slope angle overlay tools can give a pretty good sense of where you will be able (or unable) to retreat to safety if things get spooky.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Talking about social media overhype.
    yeah, he’ll talk about it till one’s blue in the face
    bF
    Alpental Indigenous

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