Results 126 to 150 of 201
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12-18-2018, 04:43 PM #126
That is good advice. Sharon and I do that every year to a few noobs and view it as a public service + good karma for all the mentors who passed it down to us. But like someone else said there are so many noobs compared to the experienced. Someone else said hire a guide for a day or a weekend and you can soak up so much knowledge. Split the cost among the group.
Not to detract from the social media discussion or the mentorship discussion but one of the most experienced persons I knew at passing along terrain management and terrain reading would teach us by hanging a clinometer around his neck and forcing us to constantly guesstimate slope angles. After a while you start getting good at it. But it was the constant habit of practise that made you good. Anyhow I see that ISBD already clarified as to it being a teaching tool.
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12-18-2018, 05:05 PM #127
Does social media overhype avy danger?
+1
A big part of the communication problem here seems to be stemming from location. Being around (deep) persistent slabs for most of the year makes me way more sensitive to slope angle than I ever was in the PNW. If there is a decent enough chance of large destructive avalanches with random trigger points you just avoid avalanche terrain - plain and simple. Otherwise you’re just rolling the dice. That just so happens to be the majority of most ski seasons out here in CO, regardless of wind, sun, layers, etc.
So yeah, identifying slope angle is a pretty critical skill out here. I do play in microterrain on occasion however, but thats more about risk tolerance than decision making to avoid avalanches.
It sucks seeing avy incidents shoot through the roof back in the PNW when the ‘rarer’ persistent slab problem occurs. But, the train of thought of just simply avoiding avalanche terrain isn’t as omnipresent in that community.Last edited by Lindahl; 12-18-2018 at 08:49 PM.
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12-18-2018, 06:25 PM #128Registered User
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The difference between CO and WA, besides the nature of the snow and depth of the snowpack, is that we have lots of great skiing in trees that are never subject to slides (that's right, I said never). Other places have mostly alpine terrain, where pretty much any skiing automatically equates to avy exposure, which leads to relying on really weak science (like pits and slope angles). If you want to be an old backcountry skier, leave the guessing out, and just ski them trees whenever there is any significant doubt.
As for the original point, the answer around here is unquestionably yes; social media consistently overstates the extent (both geographically and as to probability) of the risk, and its duration. NWAC will almost always say it is High across the entire region whenever there is any significant new snow and social media typically treats High as "it's unsafe to go anywhere outside the resort right now". We named our favorite protected run on East Peak "Certain Death" after a clueless Crystal patroller who told us that was what would surely happen if we ventured up there one day, We've skied that zone many times over many years without incident during High forecasts. As for Gunder and Kyle's recent surprises, well, if you are truly avid, you will eventually discover the reality of spatial variability. I do not view either of them as having made any obviously bad decisions, but their risk tolerance is probably closer to mine than most of the pundits on social media.
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12-18-2018, 06:54 PM #129
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12-18-2018, 06:56 PM #130
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12-18-2018, 06:58 PM #131
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12-18-2018, 06:59 PM #132
well i just read stuff and haven't done any touring yet but i can say that the first thing that i have always considered a given when i start is that i will not venture to areas steep enough to slide. it seems like the obvious way to eliminate most of the risk.
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12-18-2018, 07:05 PM #133
I took a 5-day AST2+ class from Colwest out of Kamloops, BC last winter and it was outstanding: every single day was tour planning, touring, and assessment of the day including weather, forecasting hazard, etc etc. Did some snow science, pits, companion rescue, first aid, but just a bit each day; not a shit ton. The focus is on how to manage terrain and conditions, not diagram pits all fucking day, which is why I specifically took this class and not one in the US. 2 guides, stayed in a hut, tons of 1x1 and group feedback. Best class I’ve ever taken by a long shot. Way more practical and less academic. Picked up a ton of things I use all the time. PM me if you want more details.
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12-18-2018, 07:17 PM #134
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12-18-2018, 08:38 PM #135
My risk tolerance is actually quite low. Especially compared to what it was 20 years ago. Loosing as many friends as I have to the mountains over the years will do that to you. Plus I’m in a position where if I tell a client it was too dangerous they trust me. If I told them that 20 years ago I’d be out a job. Thankfully that culture had changed.
At the end of the day a lot of comes down to exposure time. I’ve actually had very few close calls over the last 20 years especially when you consider how many more days I am on snow then your average weekend warrior. I.E. my yearly average has probably been around 150-200 days a year on snow over the last 20+ years. So that’s just a lot of time out. At some point you are going to make a mistake. So my thought is to do everything possible to limit mistakes and then be as prepared as possible for when they eventually happen. I feel this last close call was just a fluke accident. You just don’t expect an inbounds run to slide after significant avalanche control work.
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12-18-2018, 09:05 PM #136
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12-18-2018, 09:19 PM #137
You certainly don't. But I spent a long soul crushing time probing for a girl who was died at snowbird in bounds after extensive control work. And while I'm sure some people skied some steep stuff in the backcountry that day. It taught me that even the most controlled slopes, being controlled by the best patrollers can be dangerous. In the end for me I have one simple rule. I never fuck with persistent weak layers and deep slabs. And every time I mention it to a professional avie person or avid BC skier I get the same awnser. You'll live to ski more that way. In the past I was more likely to take risks. But my philosophy has changed to have more fun for me time . Still down to send big lines and big air but have the patience to wait for things to line up. For me, I ski in the BC when my worries are only about newly deposited snow or changing temps. Simple as that. I don't judge those who have a higher danger threshold not should they judge those whose threshold is lesser. In the end is all about having fun and coming home safe. Terrain selection is your friend and good partners are to. It's a big picture process and each group must paint their own picture. Over hyped or not. I've yet to ever read a forecast that was just plain wrong anywhere. There's anyways good info whether you like the format or forecaster or you hate them. They might bring another color to your picture that wasn't in your palate and that alone is worthy. Stay safe or there. All data helps the WISE, only the fool rejects based upon impulse.
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12-18-2018, 09:20 PM #138
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12-18-2018, 09:26 PM #139
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12-18-2018, 10:10 PM #140
Did somebody say hoar frost?
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12-19-2018, 12:01 AM #141
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12-19-2018, 12:04 AM #142
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12-19-2018, 12:06 AM #143
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12-19-2018, 08:48 AM #144Registered User
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12-19-2018, 09:13 AM #145
They might bring another color to your picture that wasn't in your palate and that alone is worthy. Stay safe or there. All data helps the WISE, only the fool rejects based upon impulse.
embrace the gape
and believe
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12-19-2018, 09:26 AM #146Registered User
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Sorry man, I was there too. We found one of her skis in the lower ampitheater and got people to start probing below it before ski patrol came and took over. it was a tough search.
I like your philosophy though on when to go out. If it's a super tricky day, it's so easy to just hold back rather than try to put a million puzzle pieces together to see if you are going to ski or die.
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12-19-2018, 10:31 AM #147
This thread prompted me to actually look at some social media. Here is the CAICs Insta
https://www.instagram.com/coavalancheinfo/
If you got any to share (good or bad), lets post them up here.
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12-19-2018, 10:37 AM #148Registered User
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12-19-2018, 10:38 AM #149
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXK...UUgjzFQ/videos
The Northwest Snow and Avalanche Workshop presentations posted on youtube by NWAC
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12-19-2018, 11:02 AM #150guy who skis
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