Reverse Camber Touring Skis: What Should Be on my Radar

[Nkane]

Well.

I picked up a pair of G3 Synapse 109s on eBay. And GOODNESS GRACIOUS. I am so glad I went with full rocker; these skis are revolutionary.

On Saturday, WhetherMan and I toured a pleasant zone near Tahoe. We targeted 25-30 degree terrain; some tighter trees, some open shots. The snow was 3-day old dense pow; you never felt the bottom but it wasn't breaking over your knees either. Some areas were wind affected and a bit punchy.

On my Chargers, this terrain would have been fun (I mean, we're skiing pow in the backcountry, come on) but I would have burned up my quads struggling to break the skis out of their sidecut to avoid trees. Noodling in low-angle punchy snow, I would have felt that knee-tweaking grabbiness as the strong, flat tail got stuck between layers. Navigating between tight trees would have required a jump to unlock the ski from its turn radius and get going in a different direction.

Not so on the Synapses. I experienced all of the advantages mentioned in this thread, and so far none of the downsides. They made predictable arcs at speed. When a tree got in the way of my turn, I just rolled my ankles, slid sideways, then resumed my carve. They landed mini golf drops stably and predictably. I could ski them forward, centered, or even in the backseat without feeling any quad burn. Even downhill adventure skinning on breakable crust through willows felt easier than it should have.

On the uphill, I experienced no abnormal slippage, even allowing for the fact that this was my first tour of the season. Oh yeah, and they're 100g lighter despite being a little longer.

Caveats: Conditions were pretty darn good. I didn't ski any firm snow where camber might have been nice. Nor did I drop any steep couloirs where a strong tail might have given me more support. The skin tracks we used were moderately graded and not refrozen. I wasn't maching down open slopes, so I didn't push any speed limits.

But who cares! I'm sold. This was one of my best days touring in recent memory and I credit the skis quite a bit.

I'll put my Chargers on gear swap soon. How does $225 sound for local pickup in the Bay or Tahoe?

[nickwm21]

Bump.

Looking at:
Meridian tour
Raven
BMT109

Fully rockered G3 doesn’t exist anymore....

Any reviews on the Meridian Tour?

Anything else out there I am missing? Full rocker, 108 class, 190ish, tour light....


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[rod9301]

Vwerks Katanas

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[CascadeLuke]

BC Corvus 188
2050g per w/ metal

[grinch]

Id imagine if Keith was going to press up some gpo's he might be able to do a pair in the rrc or rcc or whatever that abreviation was. Disclaimer:im not sure how ez that is to do but it was an option for the gpo/reverse camber. Always thought theyd make my fave touring ski even more magic. Too bad neckbeard wasnt still around. Last i saw , he was still using his day in day out

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[robnow]

https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...-intention-110

[nickwm21]

Id imagine if Keith was going to press up some gpo's he might be able to do a pair in the rrc or rcc or whatever that abreviation was. Disclaimer:im not sure how ez that is to do but it was an option for the gpo/reverse camber. Always thought theyd make my fave touring ski even more magic. Too bad neckbeard wasnt still around. Last i saw , he was still using his day in day out

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Skinny GPO UL RRC is my dream do it all touring setup. Just $$$$$$


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[DGamms]

Moment Deathwish Tour looks pretty awesome too. Never skied it so just speculating. But flat underfoot foot and 1650gm in a 184, progressive mount point, straight shape/long turn radius, and lots of tip/tail splay without too much taper. As a fan of flat/subtle reverse camber skis with mount points of -4 to -6cm from TC, I want to try it!

That new WNDR Intention 110 in the reverse camber looks awesome too. Less tip/tail taper than 4FRNTs current offerings, looks like a lighter and slightly narrower EHP by the rocker profile to me. Long flat section underfoot. A little more sidecut than the EHP too. All of which sounds amazing as a midwinter UT touring ski. But very expensive!

The only thing closer to the old EHP dimensions in a touring layup would be the SGN Togga. Maybe wider than what you want. Specs look money though! More rocker than the EHP and the Intention 110 by the pics. Also very expensive.

https://sgnskis.com/products/togga?v...14249640886331

The BMT 109 and V-Werks Katana, and the Moment Merdian Tour 107 all seem like good flat/subtle reverse touring options too.

Lastly, this isn’t billed as a flat camber ski but the rocker/camber profile pics suggest otherwise. I am willing to bet it would feel like a flat camber touring ski with a little home decambering.

https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...ine-vision-108

[meter-man]

I had the 184 Raven at 6' 190#. I think I would have really liked the 190. The 184 felt too short to me, except on hardpack, so I suggest you go for the 190. I haven't skied enough full rocker skis to know, but I'm guessing you'd want to err on the longer side for any fully-rockered ski. The Ravens were really fun on hardpack but required loading up the skis to really get all the juice out of them. Damn I wanna go skiing!!

[WhetherMan]

I had the 184 Raven at 6' 190#. I think I would have really liked the 190. The 184 felt too short to me, except on hardpack, so I suggest you go for the 190. I haven't skied enough full rocker skis to know, but I'm guessing you'd want to err on the longer side for any fully-rockered ski. The Ravens were really fun on hardpack but required loading up the skis to really get all the juice out of them. Damn I wanna go skiing!!

Did you ever feel like the 184 was folding up on you in deeper snow?

[meter-man]

Did you ever feel like the 184 was folding up on you in deeper snow?

What's up TC! I don't know if fold up is exactly the right word... They were stiff, but they just felt a little too short and too little surface area for our medium-heavy Sierra snowpack and I had to ski a lot slower as a result. It might be because the tips are not wide at all (only 120!). They were really fun in hardpack, but just felt on I was on waterskis that were a touch too short in 3-D snow. They felt wide and long enough in blower low-density pow, especially on flatter/less steep pitches.

[Andyski]

Beast 108 should be in the mix. I'm gonna try a pair this year. I've been touring on Hoji's (super rc) with pure mohair and it's been fine. Just tread lightly on the sketchy bits.

How’d that go? About to drill a pair I found super cheap...

[sruffian]

I’d be interested to hear takes on some of the bigger fully rockered touring skis.

How does the bmt 122 compare to the renegade and the nocta in similar lengths? Anyone tour on inthaynes?


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[whyturn]

Wootest kusala


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[sf]

The only thing closer to the old EHP dimensions in a touring layup would be the SGN Togga. Maybe wider than what you want. Specs look money though! More rocker than the EHP and the Intention 110 by the pics. Also very expensive.
https://sgnskis.com/products/togga?v...14249640886331

I did a few tours on the Togga last year. Not the tour, but the standard lay-up.
- light for the size
- it's as reverse as dps 138 etc......a shit ton of rocker. Extremely maneuverable
- for me sizing is a bit off. Bought 186 since 194 would be too long for kick turns, but 186 is like snowblades. Mounted 1,5 back, still a bit less float than I would like for a ski like this, especially in heavier snow. In fresh pow they were excellent.
- smooth flex. The tour is far stiffer. My guess is it could be a bit harsh....

I expected it to ski more like a EHP than it does. Really, it skis more like a dps 138 / Protest etc than the EHP.

I put some rocker pics in the SGN-thread https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ight=sgn+togga

[WhetherMan]

What's up TC! I don't know if fold up is exactly the right word... They were stiff, but they just felt a little too short and too little surface area for our medium-heavy Sierra snowpack and I had to ski a lot slower as a result. It might be because the tips are not wide at all (only 120!). They were really fun in hardpack, but just felt on I was on waterskis that were a touch too short in 3-D snow. They felt wide and long enough in blower low-density pow, especially on flatter/less steep pitches.

D! What's up?! I had a very similar experience on the 190 actually. I tend to judge all skis by waist width, but just like you're pointing out, the raven has way less width in the tip in tail than a lot of ~104 underfoot skis. Not enough surface for the Sierra. But totally fun in low angle low density. Also, for a pure touring ski, pretty fkn heavy for the surface area. 1900g for the 190 i think? These days, that's not great.

[meter-man]

2023 bump: what's out there now in the 102-114 range, preferably around 1800-1900g/ski.

Raven (1900g for 190)
Intention 108 (2000g for 188)
Katana VWerks (1960g for 184)
Heritage Labs C113 (1900g? for 187)

Meridian Tour and BMT 109 are no longer.

What else??

I tried a Hoji, but it was almost 2200g in the 191. Too much for a daily tourer for me. My Protests weigh 2060g!

[Bamski]

I’m going to run against the gospel here,

I’ve personally found fully rockered touring skis to be a bit of a trade-off for a daily-driver in the backcountry.

They can be frustrating on icy skin tracks, and they can be downright terrifying on firmer steep lines where edge hold is paramount.

Do I think they make a great addition as a quiver ski? Definitely. If you know you’re going to be skiing some wind packed pow, sastrugi, or punch crust, they’ll be much more enjoyable than a more traditional ski. I’ve kept my Ravens in my quiver for this reason.

The dispatch 101 (or 110) could fit your needs really well if you want a smeary, non-hooky ski - while still maintaining some camber underfoot for a bit more versatility on hard slopes and on the skin track.

Just my 2 cents

[kootenayskier]

I’m going to run against the gospel here,

I’ve personally found fully rockered touring skis to be a bit of a trade-off for a daily-driver in the backcountry.

They can be frustrating on icy skin tracks, and they can be downright terrifying on firmer steep lines where edge hold is paramount.

Do I think they make a great addition as a quiver ski? Definitely. If you know you’re going to be skiing some wind packed pow, sastrugi, or punch crust, they’ll be much more enjoyable than a more traditional ski. I’ve kept my Ravens in my quiver for this reason.

The dispatch 101 (or 110) could fit your needs really well if you want a smeary, non-hooky ski - while still maintaining some camber underfoot for a bit more versatility on hard slopes and on the skin track.

Just my 2 cents

Obviously depends where and when you ski. I prefer and am usually able to keep well clear of icy skin tracks and steep hard-pack (in the backcountry).

[Bamski]

Obviously depends where and when you ski. I prefer and am usually able to keep well clear of icy skin tracks and steep hard-pack (in the backcountry).

For sure.

Also it helps to have a quiver that lets you cater to conditions somewhat.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

I need a backup pair of BMT 109's.

They can be frustrating on icy skin tracks, and they can be downright terrifying on firmer steep lines where edge hold is paramount.

Not really.

[random_watcher]

2023 bump: what's out there now in the 102-114 range, preferably around 1800-1900g/ski.

Raven (1900g for 190)
Intention 108 (200g for 188)
Katana VWerks (1960g for 184)
Heritage Labs C113 (1900g? for 187)

Meridian Tour and BMT 109 are no longer.

What else??

I tried a Hoji, but it was almost 2200g in the 191. Too much for a daily tourer for me. My Protests weigh 2060g!

Faction's La Machine line of skis might be worth a look.

All supposedly 0 camber, 4 different widths to choose from and very tourable weights. Don't seem to do much in the longer lengths though.

[rod9301]

I’m going to run against the gospel here,

I’ve personally found fully rockered touring skis to be a bit of a trade-off for a daily-driver in the backcountry.

They can be frustrating on icy skin tracks, and they can be downright terrifying on firmer steep lines where edge hold is paramount.

Do I think they make a great addition as a quiver ski? Definitely. If you know you’re going to be skiing some wind packed pow, sastrugi, or punch crust, they’ll be much more enjoyable than a more traditional ski. I’ve kept my Ravens in my quiver for this reason.

The dispatch 101 (or 110) could fit your needs really well if you want a smeary, non-hooky ski - while still maintaining some camber underfoot for a bit more versatility on hard slopes and on the skin track.

Just my 2 cents

The vwerks katanas do pretty well on icy steeps.

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[Benneke10]

I get the icy skin track point, but I haven't ever been on a fully rockered ski that didn't feel secure descending steeps. If anything they usually feel more secure because they usually have a longer sidecut. That said the only full rocker skis I've used are Volkls (BMT, Katana, 100eight, Mantra).

[rfconroy]

I’m going to run against the gospel here,

I’ve personally found fully rockered touring skis to be a bit of a trade-off for a daily-driver in the backcountry.

They can be frustrating on icy skin tracks, and they can be downright terrifying on firmer steep lines where edge hold is paramount.

Do I think they make a great addition as a quiver ski? Definitely. If you know you’re going to be skiing some wind packed pow, sastrugi, or punch crust, they’ll be much more enjoyable than a more traditional ski. I’ve kept my Ravens in my quiver for this reason.

The dispatch 101 (or 110) could fit your needs really well if you want a smeary, non-hooky ski - while still maintaining some camber underfoot for a bit more versatility on hard slopes and on the skin track.

Just my 2 cents

I have not found this to be an issue at all for me at least on the Raven, but definitely the Hoji. I am typically the last in my group to pop out the ski crampons while on a Raven, and while descending as long as you're on edge its been fine, I have not personally noticed any significant different between a ski with camber underfoot.