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  1. #26
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    Some thoughtful responses in here to a good question.

    I like tahoeJ's response in particular:

    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    Dabbled with the idea of trying to "do what you love" and eventually decided that instead I'd follow a path that made me enough money to be comfortable but also emphasized flexibility above all else, so I'd have time to pursue my passions (i.e. go ski, mtb and golf a bunch). Do I wish I could get out more than I do? Sure, although that probably has more to do with family life than work life.

    There was definitely some luck involved - there always is.
    There is a reason I have never mixed skiing with work. It's one my ultimate escapes from reality, and introducing an hourly wage or salary to it will surely corrupt that which I hold so dear. Better to focus my job skills elsewhere and find an occupation that both pays the bills and (more crucially) allows the most time possible to experience the world around me.


    Quote Originally Posted by GeezerSteve View Post
    Pro tip: Nobody is gonna pay you to smoke dope, watch TV and play video games
    Twitch Stream would like to have a word with you regarding that.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by beece View Post
    There is a difference between doing what you love and doing what you are passionate about. If you can make cash chasing your passion, do it. Much of it will still be crap and toil, but it won't matter much, as the passion will pull you.

    Chasing doing what you love never works. As soon as it changes from fun to work the regret sets in. Great song line "if there's something you do well, something you're proud of, better to save some for yourself, if that's allowed."

    I don't "love" my job, in that I don't look forward to every minute of it every day. Much of it drives me crazy. But by god, I'm passionate about it. I go in to the office each day wanting to push forward more and create better things and do right by the folks that have to experience my work.

    My friend who is in a successful touring band and my brother who is a professional coach are passionate about what they do. From the outside it must look like living the dream. Knowing what they actually sacrifice for their job makes it look unbearable to me. But they are both passionate, and therefore wouldn't trade their lives for anything.

    To understand the difference between choosing a job for fun, money or passion read the beginning of the ON3P thread here and see what it took to start that company. A MASSIVE amount of work and sacrifice, and faith.

    Don't chase money. Don't chase fun. Chase passion. Everything else will work out.
    quality post

    Quote Originally Posted by El Chupacabra View Post
    Or in reality, you could do what I did (fall into law school because nothing else seemed doable with a poli sci and history degree), and put in a lot of work and stress. I recommend to everyone thinking of law to reconsider and find something else. Money can be good, but the work-life balance can be terrible.
    I fell into law school too for similar reasons (and similar pol sci background), I wanted to be able to buy a house and law school seemed like the best path forward to have a sustainable career that paid ok. It has worked out reasonably well for me, and I made some good/educated decisions along the way, but I certainly did not enter law school having a real clue about being a lawyer. And was somewhat rudely awakened on that one. So while I don't counsel people not to go to law school as a generality, I do think the decision requires far more thought and research than most people give it.

    I should add that a long time ago I gave up on finding my "dream job", I think many people are unhappy because they don't have that and they think they should, so they don't know how to accept something different. I decided instead that I wanted a job that allowed me to live the way I wanted to, near the mountains, with the ability to go on regular skiing/biking/camping excursions. And enough free time to do them. Law school could have been a bad choice in those respects, but it worked out for me.
    Last edited by Danno; 12-04-2018 at 05:35 PM.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin

  3. #28
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    Currently struggling with this. I graduated college in 14 with a degree in History, and have held a couple jobs but nothing has stuck, typically due to low pay. Worked two years as a patroller, loved it, but the reality that the resort wasnít going to take care of me or help me achieve peripheral dreams (home ownership, financial security), set in.

    Currently working in the construction field, and while itís paying the bills and letting me save some, I question if the the 60-70 hour weeks are really worth it for a so-so paycheck and not being able to spend time with the people I care about and doing the things I love.

    Sending out application after application and either getting stonewalled or told Iím not qualified can get pretty discouraging, but Iím gonna keep busting my ass in this current job until I can move into another position or industry.

    Any mags got advice for a dude in his mid 20s trying to make it in life (and still ski)?

  4. #29
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    Didn't realize there were so many fellow lawyers around.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by moncachtape View Post

    Any mags got advice for a dude in his mid 20s trying to make it in life (and still ski)?
    Go back and get a degree in Data Science?

  6. #31
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    I pretty much loved fighting wildfire and then ski patrol. It worked out for me. Forestry degree was crucial to the long game with fire.

    /brag.
    Donít give up until.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Chupacabra View Post
    True. Or it may be even earlier than 10 years.

    The ones who suffer the most from law school go in, graduate, pass the bar, get their first job, then realize it's undoable - but still have a pile of debt to pay off.
    I made it 11. Switched from corporate counsel to the business side and haven't looked back. I watched the life of my dad (a trial lawyer) from when I was growing up and knew that wasn't what I wanted, even though he worked a path like Geezer Steve and was mostly retired by 55 and playing 18-36 holes a day.

    Work at a big Seattle tech co now, but my gig is pretty decent. It's let me ski in Japan, Cham and others. I can skip out for a powder morning or early afternoon. I can't complain.

  8. #33
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    both/ end thread

    I would make tons more money in my profession if I lived in NY
    But I have way more fun doing what I do in WY
    both. be creative
    skid luxury

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    Go back and get a degree in Data Science?
    hope he at least got laid getting that history degree
    .

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatty View Post
    I made it 11. Switched from corporate counsel to the business side and haven't looked back. I watched the life of my dad (a trial lawyer) from when I was growing up and knew that wasn't what I wanted, even though he worked a path like Geezer Steve and was mostly retired by 55 and playing 18-36 holes a day.

    Work at a big Seattle tech co now, but my gig is pretty decent. It's let me ski in Japan, Cham and others. I can skip out for a powder morning or early afternoon. I can't complain.
    so really no excuse to ski a day with us at 19BBI
    .

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by moncachtape View Post
    Any mags got advice for a dude in his mid 20s trying to make it in life (and still ski)?

    I'll give my experience (late 20's, making good money, working 40 hours and skiing 4-5 days a week)

    I got a job at a non-profit at 21. Realized the money's in fundraising, ppl are scared of the job, and that's what's holding most non-profit groups back. Took 6 years to vp level. Skied the whole time. We're doing great and my wife's still a grad student.

    My two cents - learn to code or learn that most ppl who make salaried bank do it with soft skills and the projection of confidence/competence


    El Chup - sry to hear about the porn, but you had to meet Mrs C somewhere, right?

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by moncachtape View Post
    Currently struggling with this. I graduated college in 14 with a degree in History, and have held a couple jobs but nothing has stuck, typically due to low pay. Worked two years as a patroller, loved it, but the reality that the resort wasnít going to take care of me or help me achieve peripheral dreams (home ownership, financial security), set in.

    Currently working in the construction field, and while itís paying the bills and letting me save some, I question if the the 60-70 hour weeks are really worth it for a so-so paycheck and not being able to spend time with the people I care about and doing the things I love.

    Sending out application after application and either getting stonewalled or told Iím not qualified can get pretty discouraging, but Iím gonna keep busting my ass in this current job until I can move into another position or industry.

    Any mags got advice for a dude in his mid 20s trying to make it in life (and still ski)?
    Feel your pain. I graduated in 2016 with a BS in mechanical engineering. Had been working on houses in college so fell into a job in commercial construction management in Seattle. Pay is good, but I work 10+ hours a day for decent pay but feel like I'm not pursuing any of my passions and missing time to get out and do stuff I care about. And it's just kinda boring all around.

    Been trying to apply to stuff since 2017 especially in product design & development since I love tinkering and building just about anything. Seems like no one will take you serious unless you're coming from another big company and even with connections hard to get your foot in the door. The typical "entry level position, requires 12 years experience' is what I've run into. I think you just have to try and try and try until you get a break. I'm hoping that happens at least.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by moncachtape View Post
    Currently working in the construction field, and while itís paying the bills and letting me save some, I question if the the 60-70 hour weeks are really worth it for a so-so paycheck
    Ugh, what kind of construction are you doing? Boots on the ground? 60-70 hour weeks should be making you decent money, the plus side is youíre not spending it when you work all the time, until you take your lay-off check in mid December and ski not stop until March-April...

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyromaniacman129 View Post
    Feel your pain. I graduated in 2016 with a BS in mechanical engineering. Had been working on houses in college so fell into a job in commercial construction management in Seattle. Pay is good, but I work 10+ hours a day for decent pay but feel like I'm not pursuing any of my passions and missing time to get out and do stuff I care about. And it's just kinda boring all around.

    Been trying to apply to stuff since 2017 especially in product design & development since I love tinkering and building just about anything. Seems like no one will take you serious unless you're coming from another big company and even with connections hard to get your foot in the door. The typical "entry level position, requires 12 years experience' is what I've run into. I think you just have to try and try and try until you get a break. I'm hoping that happens at least.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    FWIW, one of my life long buds also graduated in 2016 with a BS in mechanical engineering. He currently works in a pharmaceutical plant for a mid size private international company. Said he is bored most of the time, but at least not killing himself on a standard 8hr a day schedule and makes about average salary for his position. He has been looking for jobs for over a year now and sounds like heís in the same boat as you. Heís now considering a teaching position at a private high school that wants to put together a tech program... talk about a 180

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    So while I don't counsel people not to go to law school as a generality, I do think the decision requires far more thought and research than most people give it.
    This is spot on. Many people apply for law school as a fallback option without any idea what they might do with a law degree. Those who do well in law school get offers from big firms, and there's a good chance they will get stuffed in a back room looking at security offering documents or in a big litigation support role or some other support role. Those positions are like cogs in a big machine, with little potential to later develop a flexible gig, sometimes dead end jobs -- and big firm support work can really suck too. OTOH, getting litigation experience straight out of law school can, eventually, lead to a gig with schedule flexibility (e.g., hired gun litigation work or partner in a profitable small firm with understanding partners). I was warned by my sister (a law school superstar who had a very good career with a silk stocking firm then a Assistant U.S. Attorney) and others. Duly warned, when I interviewed with firms, I required assurance that I would not be shoved in a back room and would be doing front line trial work from the start. I turned down better pay for a firm that promised to get trying cases my first year out.

    The surest path to schedule flexibility in the legal field is niche work that is in demand, e.g., business tax work, ERISA, employment defense, which, after a few years in a firm, one can do from home in a low overhead operation. I know some estate planning and elder law attorneys who work half time from home, make a good living and have flexible schedules. Be aware however that will require some contacts (often other lawyers) and/or internet advertising strategy to get work in the door. IME, an accounting undergrad degree would be a good way to set up a path to a flexible/low overhead niche practice.

    I suppose these lessons can transfer to other professional fields. IME, if you want to work into a professional gig with schedule flexibility -- best of all, a lone wolf or of counsel low overhead niche practice -- you should start planning early, lest you might end up a dead ender, a teensy weensy cog in a big machine with no way out.

  16. #41
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    The learn to write some code so you can work remote thing strikes me as good advice.

    My background is in econ and applied stats. Because I can do some propellorhead technical stuff, I work remote. I'd make significantly more money if I lived in NYC or San Francisco. I'd also make significantly more money if I weren't easily distracted and more interested in skiing than I am in writing an extra 1000 lines of SQL.

    Anyhow, it keeps the bills paid and I'm going skiing at lunch again today.

  17. #42
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    Do what you love...or work so you can afford life?

    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
    Agree. I don't particularly enjoy what I do for a living, but a number of years ago - after stepping away for a few years - came to realize that I'm really good at it and to just embrace it. And it's definitely true that if you're good, you can absolutely negotiate for more flexibility. My partners are very much aware that I signed up our largest client to date while riding a lift at Alpine Meadows (with an email not a phone call, I hate people who make calls on the lift and force everyone else to hear it). Gotta love smart phones.
    Yup.

    I always wanted to work in the ski industry. Always thinking about my eventual Ďímoveíí in my 20s. My friends already working within it forcefully advised, no, told me to stay in my lane.

    Do we self-employed/ICís make a majority here?

    ETA props to those of you that do make it work in the industry
    Last edited by Self Jupiter; 12-06-2018 at 03:34 PM.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Self Jupiter View Post
    Do we self-employed/IC’s make a majority here?
    I doubt it. TGR has lots of tradespersons, cube dwellers, trust fund babies and dirtbags.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirshredalot View Post
    The learn to write some code so you can work remote thing strikes me as good advice.
    Yeah, I know some lone wolf code monkeys with plenty of time for outdoor stuff, although it seems they have intermittent dry spells with no work and related money anxiety.

  19. #44
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    I work for the gubmint.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    I work for the gubmint.
    county, state or fed?

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    I work for the gubmint.
    Me too.

  22. #47
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    Danno and Cravenmorhead, you have opportunities and/or plans to move out to a flexible private sector gig? I recently ran into an ex-govt land use jock with a sweet low overhead home-based practice.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    I fell into law school too for similar reasons (and similar pol sci background), I wanted to be able to buy a house and law school seemed like the best path forward to have a sustainable career that paid ok. It has worked out reasonably well for me, and I made some good/educated decisions along the way, but I certainly did not enter law school having a real clue about being a lawyer. And was somewhat rudely awakened on that one. So while I don't counsel people not to go to law school as a generality, I do think the decision requires far more thought and research than most people give it.
    I was inches away from law school. I had taken the LSAT, was about to send out a bunch of applications. I worked for a non-profit in DC that specialized in suing the government, and I'd occasionally go to the court trials. I remember one moment watching a lawyer for Lindsay Graham, I think, make an argument and I knew I could do better than that dummy. My dream was to do appeals litigation.

    But, I had a buddy who was a lawyer and he talked me out of it. Told me about what his early law career was like and that it wasn't worth it. He's a real estate agent now, I think. It turned out for the best cause I would have come out of law school in 2009 or 2010, right when the bottom fell out of the law jobs market.

    Now I'm in the same boat as a bunch of people here. Trying to balance money, passion and freedom of my time. Trying to make the solo biz work for now, but who knows how long I'll last. I think a location independent job for a company that is fully remote with internationally distributed employees is the best setup. Stability of a salary and insurance, but the flexibility to work the hours you want.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeezerSteve View Post
    Danno and Cravenmorhead, you have opportunities and/or plans to move out to a flexible private sector gig? I recently ran into an ex-govt land use jock with a sweet low overhead home-based practice.
    Yes. Due to reasons, I'm with the government for the next 6 months or so, but beyond that, I'm going to push for telecommuting privileges (which is workable for other reasons). If the government balks, I'll likely move into a similar niche home-based practice.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supermoon View Post
    But, I had a buddy who was a lawyer and he talked me out of it. Told me about what his early law career was like and that it wasn't worth it. He's a real estate agent now, I think. It turned out for the best cause I would have come out of law school in 2009 or 2010, right when the bottom fell out of the law jobs market.
    My cohort. It was slim pickings there for a while.

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