The 300g Touring Binding Thread

[XXX-er]

IME if you tell kids not to stik beans up their nose they will

so I'm not saying anything

[galibier_numero_un]

This seems like an odd choice. If they brought the R12 or better the FR14 for $700 it would’ve borderline ok. But the R12 heel doesn’t offer much over the Crest heel other than 2 extra release points. So this is just at crest at $700. Which is pretty nuts.

I think it's more about the $700 than choice of toe. ATK has always mix and matched.

Maybe Black Diamond's engineers didn't like the snow clearing toe of the R12 and R14. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.

I like the two extra riser (not "release") positions, and if that becomes more important to my right ankle's limited dorsiflection, then it will be an R12 purchase from Yurp.

In the next few days, I'll update the the first post of the ATK thread with the details of this binder version.

... Thom

[CaliBrit]

I think it's more about the $700 than choice of toe. ATK has always mix and matched.

Maybe Black Diamond's engineers didn't like the snow clearing toe of the R12 and R14. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.

I like the two extra riser (not "release") positions, and if that becomes more important to my right ankle's limited dorsiflection, then it will be an R12 purchase from Yurp.

In the next few days, I'll update the the first post of the ATK thread with the details of this binder version.

... Thom

Well it’s more about the crest being a 419 euro binding and the r12 a 555 euro binding. Given exchange rate and an extra margin in the loop $700 is not unreasonable for an r12. It is for a crestish binding.

[galibier_numero_un]

Well it’s more about the crest being a 419 euro binding and the r12 a 555 euro binding. Given exchange rate and an extra margin in the loop $700 is not unreasonable for an r12. It is for a crestish binding.

Good point (as long as an RV of 10 for a Crest/RT 10 works for folks).

Springtime pricing was stuck in my head - especially last Spring's COVID deals. I lost track of typical in-season prices.

Also, along the lines of the Crest 10, don't forget the RT 10 which has a toe clamping force adjustment for touring mode (adjust for tech fitting wear).

It's a straight-forward device (its name implies otherwise - "Uphill Hardness Variator") and doesn't add complexity. OK, I confess - any extra part adds complexity, but it is a simple design, with a rotating, asymmetric cam/stop to set the tension.

I wonder if it's the RT 10 toe that's spec'd for BD's version. The Crest and RT 10 toes are indistinguishable apart from the UHV which is hidden by the toe lever in the picture. Both versions of the toe (Crest 10 and RT 10) have the monolink design.


... Thom

[galibier_numero_un]

Here's a detail photo of the UHV adjuster on the toe of my RT 10 binder. Turn the screw to adjust which cam lobe the toe lever engages and this in turn increases/decreases clamping force in tour mode.

I'll put this up on the ATK thread as well, as I'm sure there may be questions about UHV. It wasn't clear until I played with one.



... Thom

[HAB]

110 and 180 have disappeared off the BD site. Wonder how much they're reshuffling their offerings.

[cat in january]

Any bindings having updates for coming year? Based on Vipec thinking Xenic Is still a few generations away. Leaves Marker Alpinist and G3 zed as front runners with the Marker having a clear price advantage from perusing online. ATK look nice but that’s dentists money. New skis need bindings

[kid-kapow]

Not new, but Salomon MTNs/Atomic Backlands are also very good bindings at a sensible price imho.

[mall walker]

ATK look nice but that’s dentists money.

worth keeping an eye out, the 180s were on sale for like $300 on backcountry at the end of last season

[cat in january]

I will take a closer look at the Salomon mountain, but have speed turn 2 I could move over and not sure how much the Salomon changes the game from them. Like to leave the turn 2 on skis on now. If they went on new skis would get the bnd top plates as my poles don’t play nice with the dynafits volcano

Saw that sale on the helio 180. I was not ready to spend then. Some folks got a good deal there

Bindings going on 90 waist ski to pair with 108 ski with the speed turn staying on my old sentimental rock skis. Hopefully a five year ski so willing to wait if there’s better tech coming up

[rod9301]

I will take a closer look at the Salomon mountain, but have speed turn 2 I could move over and not sure how much the Salomon changes the game from them. Like to leave the turn 2 on skis on now. If they went on new skis would get the bnd top plates as my poles don’t play nice with the dynafits volcano

Saw that sale on the helio 180. I was not ready to spend then. Some folks got a good deal there

Bindings going on 90 waist ski to pair with 108 ski with the speed turn staying on my old sentimental rock skis. Hopefully a five year ski so willing to wait if there’s better tech coming up

The advantage of the mtn is that it eliminates pre releases.
It have really strong toe springs

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[cat in january]

Good to hear on mountain. Just from a spec sheet I like the alpinist first and zed second. What I like from reading about the alpinist is it deadens the harshness of tech toes the best in this category and has the sliding rear

[gregL]

What I like from reading about the alpinist is it deadens the harshness of tech toes the best in this category and has the sliding rear

What you won't like about it is having to rotate the heelpiece to change lifter heights, and the "high" climbing level isn't very high at all. Other than that, it's a fine binding.

[Jongle]

Good to hear on mountain. Just from a spec sheet I like the alpinist first and zed second. What I like from reading about the alpinist is it deadens the harshness of tech toes the best in this category and has the sliding rear

For what it's worth, I have 50+ days on Zeds and 20+ days on Alpinists and much prefer the Zeds. The risers on the Zeds are way easier to flip up with your pole, you don't need to rotate the heel to use the second riser, and the heel piece is easy to rotate from walk to ski mode with your pole (again, this is on the Zeds). I've had both bindings on the same pair of skis and didn't notice any difference in harshness.

[gregL]

The risers on the Zeds are way easier to flip up with your pole, you don't need to rotate the heel to use the second riser, and the heel piece is easy to rotate from walk to ski mode with your pole (again, this is on the Zeds).

I've had friends complain about them rotating TOO easily (i.e. on their own) usually in high lifter position and wet conditions where the heel of the boot is pushing the spring-loaded heel unit rearward with each step . . .

[HAB]

I've had friends complain about them rotating TOO easily (i.e. on their own) usually in high lifter position and wet conditions where the heel of the boot is pushing the spring-loaded heel unit rearward with each step . . .

I had issues with that on the first year ones (and found the sensation of the heel tower moving annoying). For year two they went to a stiffer spring for the length compensation (which retrofits to the older ones) which solved that issue for me. YMMV, I'm 165lb and have mostly skied them in 26.5 Hawx 130s (the older orange and black WTR sole ones).

[Jongle]

I've had friends complain about them rotating TOO easily (i.e. on their own) usually in high lifter position and wet conditions where the heel of the boot is pushing the spring-loaded heel unit rearward with each step . . .

Yeah, I had this issue once or twice with my 1st-gen Zeds, but G3 switched to a stiffer heel spring for year two. They sent me a pair of the stiffer springs (for free), I swapped them out with the original springs and haven’t had the heels slide rearward while using the lifters since then.

[yeahman]

Seen some hacks in here for the stupidly low-rise Alpinist heel lifter. My buddy and I used to make heel lifters on our tele bindings out of PVC and shock cord back before heel lifters were a thing. Kinda ridiculous to have to modify like this but it works, and I like the Alpinist bindings otherwise. The PVC is a one-inch plug. Not going to win any cool-kid awards, but skinning the uphill route at my local ski area requires some steep pitches so I needed to do something that provides more additional lift than the other hacks I've seen on here. Maybe somebody else will find it useful or modify it in a way that works for them.

[buildakicker]

Seen some hacks in here for the stupidly low-rise Alpinist heel lifter. My buddy and I used to make heel lifters on our tele bindings out of PVC and shock cord back before heel lifters were a thing. Kinda ridiculous to have to modify like this but it works, and I like the Alpinist bindings otherwise. The PVC is a one-inch plug. Not going to win any cool-kid awards, but skinning the uphill route at my local ski area requires some steep pitches so I needed to do something that provides more additional lift than the other hacks I've seen on here. Maybe somebody else will find it useful or modify it in a way that works for them.

Hoping next year's has a larger riser or I'm going to start laying flatter skin tracks. The toe piece is burly on these things.

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[3PinGrin]

Seen some hacks in here for the stupidly low-rise Alpinist heel lifter. My buddy and I used to make heel lifters on our tele bindings out of PVC and shock cord back before heel lifters were a thing. Kinda ridiculous to have to modify like this but it works, and I like the Alpinist bindings otherwise. The PVC is a one-inch plug. Not going to win any cool-kid awards, but skinning the uphill route at my local ski area requires some steep pitches so I needed to do something that provides more additional lift than the other hacks I've seen on here. Maybe somebody else will find it useful or modify it in a way that works for them.

Ha, your telemark roots are showing!

You can put your weed in there.



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[rob stokes]

Seen some hacks in here for the stupidly low-rise Alpinist heel lifter. My buddy and I used to make heel lifters on our tele bindings out of PVC and shock cord back before heel lifters were a thing. Kinda ridiculous to have to modify like this but it works, and I like the Alpinist bindings otherwise. The PVC is a one-inch plug. Not going to win any cool-kid awards, but skinning the uphill route at my local ski area requires some steep pitches so I needed to do something that provides more additional lift than the other hacks I've seen on here. Maybe somebody else will find it useful or modify it in a way that works for them.

You know you aren’t using the highest lifter in that picture eh?

Sorry, you probably know that but just being sure...


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[yeahman]

You know you aren’t using the highest lifter in that picture eh?

Sorry, you probably know that but just being sure...


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Yes I know. It rests better on the lower setting. And if all I need are the low setting and the pvc, I don't need to rotate the heel piece around at all.

[yeahman]

Ha, your telemark roots are showing!

You can put your weed in there.



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Ha, yep. Here's one of the originals from 1989. We used to cut the PVC at an angle, but the way the Alpinist is designed it's not necessary. We were doing most of our skiing on Wisherd Ridge by Missoula, and we called these things Ridge Erections. Edit: Oops forgot the pic:

[MTslackcountry]

Been using dynafit comforts and vertical ft12's for years. Looking at new bindings and man there is a lot of new shit out there.

Couple of questions what's the din range on the backland/ solly mtn?

I can get a deal on BD helio 350's . They only have the narrow break tho... Can these be used without the break?

Thanks tech gurus!

[gregL]

Couple of questions what's the din range on the backland/ solly mtn?

They are not "DIN" certified (assume you are referring to ISO 13992). Amer won't give a defined release value for the three springs provided, but educated guesses put the "Women" at 6-8, "Men" at 8-10, and "Expert" at 10-12.

If you feel safer with a defined and published release value, or feel a need to have separate vertical/lateral release settings, this (or any "U" spring model) may not be the binding for you.