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  1. #251
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    No longer somewhere in Idaho
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    922
    Iím also pretty stoked with the mtnís. Several big days, great function. They feel solid. Inly gripes are the silly plastic clips for ski crampon use, must improve. Also, ramp angle calls for a tiny toe shim.


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    Gravity always wins...

  2. #252
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    No longer somewhere in Idaho
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    185, 5í11Ē, menís spring.


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  3. #253
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sun Valley, ID
    Posts
    1,595
    Quote Originally Posted by riff View Post
    Iím also pretty stoked with the mtnís. Several big days, great function. They feel solid. Inly gripes are the silly plastic clips for ski crampon use, must improve. Also, ramp angle calls for a tiny toe shim.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Ramp angle is what pushed me to alpinist but a small shim would easily help.

  4. #254
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    3,000
    So I keep asking myself why I haven't considered the Plum Pika. It looks to be a flippy lifter evolution of the Guide. Ramp angle is easily correctable with toe shims.

    Interestingly, the "Binding Finder" dialog on the Plum site directs me to the Guides. Maybe they know something I don't

    [edit] so I called up skimo.co today and the guy I spoke with was so "blonde" in his explanation of the differences between the two that I almost hung up on him. They'll still likely get my business 'coz they do yeoman's work with the resources on their website. I can't hold one lame employee against them.

    [edit 2] The Pika has only 1 riser position.

    [edit 3] the delta on the Pika is "better". After adding a 9-10 mm toe shim to the Guide, its stack height will still be a few mm lower than a Vipec.

    ... Thom
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 04-19-2019 at 10:18 AM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  5. #255
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    505
    I've skied Raider 12s with the toe adjusting plate for 10-ish days this year. Really like how they ski compared to Ions, probably because a bit lower stack and less ramp. And they weigh a bit less. And no icing so far.

    However; according to the skimo-chart the RT 2.0 is lighter and have the ramp I'm looking for - without shimming. And even lower stack.

    What's the difference between the Raider 12 and the RT 2.0?
    It seems like the RT has the same toe, but a less complicated / lower heel? On ATKs website it says the RT is sold with the R01 plate. Is the measurements on skimo with or without the plate?

  6. #256
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
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    3,000
    So at the end of the day, I got nervous and took the safe route with a pair of Plum Guide 12's. I shimmed the toes with some UHMW (a touch under 5/16" which netted out to 8.25mm).

    This puts the delta at 1mm less/better than my Vipecs (11mm for the Vipecs and 10mm for the Guides), with the stack height being about 3mm less than the Vipecs which feel fine to me.

    Stay tuned for how they ski, although the skis they're mounted to (Praxis EXPs) are so different from anything else I own that I doubt I'll be able to say anything definitive.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  7. #257
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    No longer somewhere in Idaho
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    Any decent mods out there to ditch the little plastic clips for Salomon Mtn ski crampons? They are fiddly and make a hassle out of something that should be simple.


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  8. #258
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    North Vancouver/Whistler
    Posts
    11,307
    Quote Originally Posted by riff View Post
    Any decent mods out there to ditch the little plastic clips for Salomon Mtn ski crampons? They are fiddly and make a hassle out of something that should be simple.


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    I looked and tried also but couldn't find any. Posting just in case anyone found some

  9. #259
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Squaw valley
    Posts
    2,572
    I wonder why they are needed?

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  10. #260
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    No longer somewhere in Idaho
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    It keeps the crampon centered so it doesnít catch on the edge of the toe piece. Dynafit has a plastic tab built in that works great and canít fall off, get lost or require dexterity.


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  11. #261
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Ogden
    Posts
    5,577
    I can't picture it. Is this for the Salomon brand ski crampon? I haven't seen them. I've been using the plum crampon with my MTN's and really like them, I like that they can be dropped in without having to slide in from the side, I think it makes it easier to put them on/off without getting out of the skis.

  12. #262
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    No longer somewhere in Idaho
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    922
    Iíve got dynafit cramps, and I guess I havenít tried going without it. Maybe I donít even need them....


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  13. #263
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Ogden
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    Quote Originally Posted by riff View Post
    I’ve got dynafit cramps, and I guess I haven’t tried going without it. Maybe I don’t even need them....


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Ah, that little plastic piece that comes with the binding? Yeah, I've never used that with either plum or dynafit crampons, never had an issue.

    From Skimo.co: Note: This binding accepts both Plum and Dynafit crampons, though with the latter the included crampon keeper clip must be used to prevent any lateral movement during use.

  14. #264
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Sugarhouse
    Posts
    41
    What are your thoughts on the new Hagan Pure 10 @ 280g? I'm really liking the Core 12's right now, and these seem like a nice way to shave off a little bit more weight.

    https://www.haganskimountaineering.c...ure-10-binding

  15. #265
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    529
    The Hagan site says that theyíre rebranded atk Crests, which were discussed some earlier in this thread. Itís confusing enough that ATK has a dozen-plus models of bindings; I wish BD and Hagan didnít randomly cherry-pick models and rebrand them.

  16. #266
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    3,000
    Quote Originally Posted by jorion View Post
    The Hagan site says that theyíre rebranded atk Crests, which were discussed some earlier in this thread. Itís confusing enough that ATK has a dozen-plus models of bindings; I wish BD and Hagan didnít randomly cherry-pick models and rebrand them.
    At least Hagan tells you which ATK model they're selling, although renaming it doesn't seem to make any sense.

    BD leaves it to you to figure it out. Silly branding exercise.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  17. #267
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    North Vancouver/Whistler
    Posts
    11,307
    Quote Originally Posted by riff View Post
    Iíve got dynafit cramps, and I guess I havenít tried going without it. Maybe I donít even need them....


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    It'll work till it doesn't. If you're kickturning aggressively or sidehilling through lumpy terrain ( eg refrozen debris) the ski crampon can get moved laterally. Then if you're not careful and step down one side of the crampon will get levered and it will break


    ISO one 90mm and one 110mm Dynafit crampon to pair with other lonely crampons

  18. #268
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    mammoth
    Posts
    105
    Quote Originally Posted by sf View Post
    I've skied Raider 12s with the toe adjusting plate for 10-ish days this year. Really like how they ski compared to Ions, probably because a bit lower stack and less ramp. And they weigh a bit less. And no icing so far.

    However; according to the skimo-chart the RT 2.0 is lighter and have the ramp I'm looking for - without shimming. And even lower stack.

    What's the difference between the Raider 12 and the RT 2.0?
    It seems like the RT has the same toe, but a less complicated / lower heel? On ATKs website it says the RT is sold with the R01 plate. Is the measurements on skimo with or without the plate?
    I'm curious about this too.

    Also what's everyone's take on the G3 Zed vs Raider 12? Lookin like they're pretty similar but can't decide which would fit my needs better. Raider = harsher ride, but better power transfer?

  19. #269
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    505
    Quote Originally Posted by sf View Post
    I've skied Raider 12s with the toe adjusting plate for 10-ish days this year. Really like how they ski compared to Ions, probably because a bit lower stack and less ramp. And they weigh a bit less. And no icing so far.

    However; according to the skimo-chart the RT 2.0 is lighter and have the ramp I'm looking for - without shimming. And even lower stack.

    What's the difference between the Raider 12 and the RT 2.0?
    It seems like the RT has the same toe, but a less complicated / lower heel? On ATKs website it says the RT is sold with the R01 plate. Is the measurements on skimo with or without the plate?
    Bump. Anyone?

  20. #270
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    siberia.ru
    Posts
    88
    (Considering G3 vs ATK discussion)
    The toe jaws geometry and mousetrap-like dynamics are the things that make G3 Ion LT/Zed bindings special for me
    (more or less like "2.0" TLT comparing to current Dynafits that I saw).

    But I never had a chance to touch any ATK toes.
    So is it the same as the typical Dynafit toe geometry? Any difference?

    Not talking about ATK Crest toes that are obviously different.

  21. #271
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bottom feeding
    Posts
    7,134

    The 300g Touring Binding Thread

    Iím the opposite in that Iíve got a lot of miles on my ATK Raider 12 2.0Ďs. The toes are really different because they have the brake at the toe, (which I like a lot). That said it seems like the new G3 Z is a copy of the Raider binding, but they put the brake at the heel.
    There is no give at all in an ATK toe or heel, but also they have no play, (that my Dynafits have), they are rock solid. I should say that the heel does have fore and aft movement, but thereís no clicking or sloppiness.
    I would say the fiddle factor for the G3 and ATK are probably similar as my wife skis much less than me and finds the ATK extremely easy to use. Similar weight as well, although the ATK would be about 3 g Les with brakes.
    Also I should mention version 2.0 changes that heal completely, just go to their website and look at the 15 or so differences.
    So I guess Iím wondering is what you mean with the Dynafit toe geometry?
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  22. #272
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    siberia.ru
    Posts
    88
    While G3 Ion/Zed toes have the same overall construction with the classical TLT (ski brakes position aside), its also have some special combination of arms&levers lengths which is noticably different from Dynafit/MTN/Plum that I've tried, and it leads to two major things for me:
    First, is almost "touch"-like step-in action, think fine-tuned mouse trap, you don't have to actually step/hard press with your boot on something to make it engage. Which is a pain for Dynafit toes in soft deep or boiler plate uneven snow, when it's hard to control your skis staying flat, still and supportive for toe pressing.

    At the same time (second), G3s toe's closed jaws retention force is so high that I found myself skinning with toes unlocked (if there is not a lot of kick turns ahead). Same with skiing: unlocked even in hard chattering snow conditions, and locked in special moments only.
    Which is in contrast to my previous Dynafit experience with 100% time skiing with toes locked.

    Hard to explain verbally. G3 illustrates it like this:
    Click image for larger version. 

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  23. #273
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bottom feeding
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    7,134
    I've fondled the G3 and seen the videos on how the toe easily snaps down when stepping in. The ATK is not like that, you have to line it up and step in more like the Dynafit, but it does this easier than the dynafit, so the geometry is probably a little closer to the G3, but without the boot stop. I also (very infrequently, though), ski w/ Dynafit's toes locked. I never do that with the ATK's. They are just more solid and feel like the graph you showed.
    So... the Z wasn't available when I bought the ATK's, and they seem to be a nice locally serviceable binding, and I might have gone that way. Maybe not, though. The ATK heel is a really nice design, and the brakes never screw up, ice up or any up at all. Plus they're red.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  24. #274
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    3,000
    I'vee been thinkng about light binders over the past week. I've had positive experiences this Spring with Plum Guides.

    My attention has turned to the Kreutzspitz GT as it seems to check all the boxes that ATK, Plum do at 160 g. per binder (no brakes). I'm not sure how much the flippy lifters add (bolt on), but it can't be much.

    ... Thom
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  25. #275
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    217
    I have ATK FR 14 now and had G3 Ions previously. I've spent little time on ATK yet but G3 toe is what I really miss. I never had it pre-release and it was so confidence inspiring! ATK toe is not that amazing though I still should give them some time. Brakes are shit on both of them IMO. G3 brake springs are weak while ATKs are just twice thinner and the only real help from them is ski not slipping on flat while you are stepping in. No way they will help with stopping ski going downhill. Can't say for ATK heel vs Ion heel release performance as I had no serious crashes last trip. Also, magnet risers on ATKs are not that great. During kick-turns, for example, magnet power sometimes isn't enough to hold it in place.

    It's very unfortunate that G3 can't handle creating reliable ~300gr successor to Ions, would be a no-brainer for me

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