The 300g Touring Binding Thread

[CaliBrit]

any updates from the Crest folk? It's an ATK at a reasonable price point

Sure does. I like getting the new toe on the r12 and fr14 though.

[galibier_numero_un]

any updates from the Crest folk? It's an ATK at a reasonable price point

I keep waffling on this one as well (for the same reason), much as I'd like the R12 for the riser options.

... Thom

[nickel]

Pity for us fat fuckers that so many nice bindings in this category stop at an rv of 10 like the Crest. Probably some r12 or fr14 in my future though.

[Eluder]

I took a decent spill with ATKs - a pair of Raider 12 2.0s - last year and they did not release. I think that they should have and it made my right knee kind of unhappy for a time there. It was not very confidence inspiring, like at all. Hence me being pleasantly surprised at how FR14s performed.

Honestly I never expect perfect release from a tech binding, I'm not trying to tell you that you shouldn't but I am also suggesting that mechanically they can only do so much in the format of any of ATK's clamps.

any updates from the Crest folk? It's an ATK at a reasonable price point

Hopefully somebody can chime in but I have a pair I am gonna mount on some big skis, I'll report back after some time. I have plenty of time on MTN/Backlands and Speed Turns to reference as well as some time on some BD Helio 180's (Trufio Plus)

[galibier_numero_un]

Pity for us fat fuckers that so many nice bindings in this category stop at an rv of 10 like the Crest. Probably some r12 or fr14 in my future though.

Could be the start of a new thread ... sourcing springs. I recall (way back) someone sourcing softer springs for either Comforts or Verticals for a small skier. While these smaller manufacturers (i.e. not Salomon/Look/etc.) no doubt OEM their springs, I'll bet they design their housings around standard sizes.

... Thom

[nickel]

Could be the start of a new thread ... sourcing springs. I recall (way back) someone sourcing softer springs for either Comforts or Verticals for a small skier. While these smaller manufacturers (i.e. not Salomon/Look/etc.) no doubt OEM their springs, I'll bet they design their housings around standard sizes.

... Thom

Now we're talking. This is the kind of thinking that makes me love this place

[galibier_numero_un]

Now we're talking. This is the kind of thinking that makes me love this place

Damn! This is OCD even for me ... I stashed away some text from a thread in a defunct forum called Backcountry World (http://www.backcountryworld.com/showthread.php?t=4540).

None of this is verified by me, and obviously, you're looking for stiffer not softer, but this might be a start. Here's that quoted text ...

Even by removing the inner spring I was unable to get the lateral release
low enough for a 94 lb lady to be safe.

I ordered some A9-29 springs from century spring and that did the trick.

This makes the heel very easy to rotate as the resistance of the toe hooks
at this low of a setting come in to play a much larger role.
So far so good.

---

http://www.centuryspring.com/


A9-29

od-.562"
length 1.44"
wire .081"
Stainless

See What they will do for you.

They have a $40.00 minimum order but you may get them to
send you samples or do something.

On another note, does anyone know which of ATK's bindings share mounting patterns. I'm guessing that the ones with the elastic response (heel) system share the same heel mounting pattern. The ATK templates might be a clue, but the last time I looked at them, they were a bit puzzling.

... Thom

[fleaches]

Sorry to pester, but just so I understand this, if you're transitioning without removing the skis, you can kick the tail up behind you/tail by your shoulder, rip the skin from the tail and press the brake button, move the ski back to parallel with the ground, stomp in, continue ripping the skin to the tip, and you're good to go?

Yeah that should work. What I have been doing if I don't want to remove the skis is reach down to rotate the heel piece into ski mode and while I'm down there press the brake button. Then you can stomp down and remove skins however you want.

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[fleaches]

any updates from the Crest folk? It's an ATK at a reasonable price point

So far so good, I bought Falcon's extra pair and put them on zero g 95s. Only a few days so far but they tour really well and I haven't found the low riser to be a problem, even skinning up at resorts. Speaking of which for some reason I took this setup out at an east coast resort for a day and it actually skied the ice coast hardpack pretty well. I mean it's still a pin binding but the binding was far less noticeable than the light skis. No pre releases and I have RV set lower than I normally ski.

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[kid-kapow]

Honestly I never expect perfect release from a tech binding, I'm not trying to tell you that you shouldn't but I am also suggesting that mechanically they can only do so much in the format of any of ATK's clamps. ...

Yeah, that is kinda the name of the game with traditional tech bindings I guess. It could be that I expected too much after lots and lots of issue free days on Vipecs and Tectons, but that slam and their failure to release had me completely loose confidence in (and stop using) R12 2.0s. Probably a bit unfair/unneccessary, but oh well.

My confidence in FR14s is pretty damned good though. I do miss the front elasticity on Vipecs/Tectons, but for out and out touring (aka go looking for good snow) they should do the job nicely. Also, the saved weight doesn't exactly detract from their performance either - especially going uphill

[galibier_numero_un]

On another note, does anyone know which of ATK's bindings share mounting patterns. I'm guessing that the ones with the elastic response (heel) system share the same heel mounting pattern. The ATK templates might be a clue, but the last time I looked at them, they were a bit puzzling.
... Thom

I realized that my CAD software can import those crazy .pdf templates from the ATK site, while maintaining the scale. I'm still working through this, and it seems as if the mounting patterns vary - even among the elastic response heels (i.e. R12 vs. Crest). Toe spacing differs, but seems to at least be falling into a couple of patterns (maybe 3?).

It looks as if they're going for wider hole spacing as they bump from light touring, to touring to freeride binders, but I've yet to nail down the exact trend.

As I have free time, I'll try to compile this in a meaningful way.

It's getting to the point with my touring quiver that I will likely want to borrow bindings from skis (at least until I can suss out the keepers). The last thing I want to do is to have a mismatch, just out of convenience (i.e. a Tecton on a 1400g ski).

This is gonna take some thinkin'. Stay tuned ...

... Thom

[galibier_numero_un]

The binding nuances finally forced me to start a spreadsheet. Info puled off the ATK site, but I easily could have missed something (like no magneto heel flap on Crest).

I'm still trying to figure out the difference between the RT 10 and Crest 10 (other than the magneto heel flap) ... why the extra 20g gm for the Crest - key design difference, or just incidental change?



... Thom

[Shorty_J]

... why the extra 20g gm for the Crest - key design difference, or just incidental change?



... Thom

Engineer was exhaling during the weigh in?

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[andy m]

Yea, it's not much weight difference -- but I think it's due to the additional milling on the both the RT 10 heel and toe pieces. Actually, it's surprising that there's not a bigger weight difference between the Crest and RT, considering the degree of sculpting on the RT, so maybe the UHV (Uphill Hardness Variator) on the toe piece or some other added RT feature is adding some weight to reduce that difference.

[Eluder]

The binding nuances finally forced me to start a spreadsheet. Info puled off the ATK site, but I easily could have missed something (like no magneto heel flap on Crest).

I'm still trying to figure out the difference between the RT 10 and Crest 10 (other than the magneto heel flap) ... why the extra 20g gm for the Crest - key design difference, or just incidental change?



... Thom

Trofeo plus weight doesn't include the heel track which weighs 33g with hardware hence the Helio version being called the 180.
https://skimo.co/black-diamond-adjustment-plates

[galibier_numero_un]

Trofeo plus weight doesn't include the heel track which weighs 33g with hardware hence the Helio version being called the 180.
https://skimo.co/black-diamond-adjustment-plates

Ah! Thanks.

[CaliBrit]

The binding nuances finally forced me to start a spreadsheet. Info puled off the ATK site, but I easily could have missed something (like no magneto heel flap on Crest).

I'm still trying to figure out the difference between the RT 10 and Crest 10 (other than the magneto heel flap) ... why the extra 20g gm for the Crest - key design difference, or just incidental change?



... Thom

I was actually going to start a thread for ATK bindings as the info on them is a bit all over the place. It took me a long time to understand the differences. And I think your sheet is a fantastic start to the over view.

I think that you should have the honors being as I would just be stealing this image haha.

I’d also include the BD and Hagan model equivalents in the sheet. And also note if the binding is a u pin heel.

[galibier_numero_un]

I was actually going to start a thread for ATK bindings as the info on them is a bit all over the place. It took me a long time to understand the differences. And I think your sheet is a fantastic start to the over view.

I think that you should have the honors being as I would just be stealing this image haha.

I’d also include the BD and Hagan model equivalents in the sheet. And also note if the binding is a u pin heel.

No prob ...

Yeah, I kept going back to their site, 'coz I kept forgetting (for example) what an RT 10 vs. RT 2.0 was. It was getting old.


Tonight, I'll consolidate some of recent comments (above) and add the race binders to the spreadsheet. Yup, it makes sense to include the Hagan and BD model names.

.. Thom

[CaliBrit]

No prob ...

Yeah, I kept going back to their site, 'coz I kept forgetting (for example) what an RT 10 vs. RT 2.0 was. It was getting old.


Tonight, I'll consolidate some of recent comments (above) and add the race binders to the spreadsheet. Yup, it makes sense to include the Hagan and BD model names.

.. Thom

Nice. Some good nuggets in that freeraider thread too.

Still not that sure on RT 10 vs Crest main difference.... seems odd they are both in the line. Perhaps they won’t come next season.

[stuntmanbo]

Nice. Some good nuggets in that freeraider thread too.

Still not that sure on RT 10 vs Crest main difference.... seems odd they are both in the line. Perhaps they won’t come next season.

The RT10 has some system to setup the spring force on the toe when walking, like on the R12 / FR14. There are 5 different settings.

http://www.atkbindings.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/rt-8-_rev04.pdf
Page 30.

Other than that and 20g there is no other major difference, the RT10 may have a slight better finish.

[CaliBrit]

The RT10 has some system to setup the spring force on the toe when walking, like on the R12 / FR14. There are 5 different settings.

http://www.atkbindings.com/wp-conten...t-8-_rev04.pdf
Page 30.

Other than that and 20g there is no other major difference, the RT10 may have a slight better finish.

Ohh the uphill hardon factor.

[turnfarmer]

Mallwalker-
I saw on one of the threads that you have a Trab Titan. What are your thoughts on the toe piece?

[nyskirat]

Anyone able to compare skiing the Atomic Backland/Soli MTN with and without the brakes?

[CaliBrit]

Anyone able to compare skiing the Atomic Backland/Soli MTN with and without the bindings?

With the bindings I stay on my skis. Without, not so much.

[nyskirat]

With the bindings I stay on my skis. Without, not so much.

Thanks for catching that.