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  1. #551
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    20,690
    IME if you tell kids not to stik beans up their nose they will

    so I'm not saying anything
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  2. #552
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    3,782
    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    This seems like an odd choice. If they brought the R12 or better the FR14 for $700 it would’ve borderline ok. But the R12 heel doesn’t offer much over the Crest heel other than 2 extra release points. So this is just at crest at $700. Which is pretty nuts.
    I think it's more about the $700 than choice of toe. ATK has always mix and matched.

    Maybe Black Diamond's engineers didn't like the snow clearing toe of the R12 and R14. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.

    I like the two extra riser (not "release") positions, and if that becomes more important to my right ankle's limited dorsiflection, then it will be an R12 purchase from Yurp.

    In the next few days, I'll update the the first post of the ATK thread with the details of this binder version.

    ... Thom
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 08-01-2020 at 06:45 PM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  3. #553
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sun Valley, ID
    Posts
    1,845
    Quote Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un View Post
    I think it's more about the $700 than choice of toe. ATK has always mix and matched.

    Maybe Black Diamond's engineers didn't like the snow clearing toe of the R12 and R14. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.

    I like the two extra riser (not "release") positions, and if that becomes more important to my right ankle's limited dorsiflection, then it will be an R12 purchase from Yurp.

    In the next few days, I'll update the the first post of the ATK thread with the details of this binder version.

    ... Thom
    Well itís more about the crest being a 419 euro binding and the r12 a 555 euro binding. Given exchange rate and an extra margin in the loop $700 is not unreasonable for an r12. It is for a crestish binding.

  4. #554
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    3,782
    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Well it’s more about the crest being a 419 euro binding and the r12 a 555 euro binding. Given exchange rate and an extra margin in the loop $700 is not unreasonable for an r12. It is for a crestish binding.
    Good point (as long as an RV of 10 for a Crest/RT 10 works for folks).

    Springtime pricing was stuck in my head - especially last Spring's COVID deals. I lost track of typical in-season prices.

    Also, along the lines of the Crest 10, don't forget the RT 10 which has a toe clamping force adjustment for touring mode (adjust for tech fitting wear).

    It's a straight-forward device (its name implies otherwise - "Uphill Hardness Variator") and doesn't add complexity. OK, I confess - any extra part adds complexity, but it is a simple design, with a rotating, asymmetric cam/stop to set the tension.

    I wonder if it's the RT 10 toe that's spec'd for BD's version. The Crest and RT 10 toes are indistinguishable apart from the UHV which is hidden by the toe lever in the picture. Both versions of the toe (Crest 10 and RT 10) have the monolink design.


    ... Thom
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 08-04-2020 at 03:10 PM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  5. #555
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Colorado Front Range
    Posts
    3,782
    Here's a detail photo of the UHV adjuster on the toe of my RT 10 binder. Turn the screw to adjust which cam lobe the toe lever engages and this in turn increases/decreases clamping force in tour mode.

    I'll put this up on the ATK thread as well, as I'm sure there may be questions about UHV. It wasn't clear until I played with one.



    ... Thom
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 08-03-2020 at 03:56 AM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  6. #556
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    564
    110 and 180 have disappeared off the BD site. Wonder how much they're reshuffling their offerings.

  7. #557
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Maine Coast
    Posts
    2,957
    Any bindings having updates for coming year? Based on Vipec thinking Xenic Is still a few generations away. Leaves Marker Alpinist and G3 zed as front runners with the Marker having a clear price advantage from perusing online. ATK look nice but that’s dentists money. New skis need bindings

  8. #558
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    800
    Not new, but Salomon MTNs/Atomic Backlands are also very good bindings at a sensible price imho.

  9. #559
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    5,362
    Quote Originally Posted by cat in january View Post
    ATK look nice but that’s dentists money.
    worth keeping an eye out, the 180s were on sale for like $300 on backcountry at the end of last season

  10. #560
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Maine Coast
    Posts
    2,957
    I will take a closer look at the Salomon mountain, but have speed turn 2 I could move over and not sure how much the Salomon changes the game from them. Like to leave the turn 2 on skis on now. If they went on new skis would get the bnd top plates as my poles donít play nice with the dynafits volcano

    Saw that sale on the helio 180. I was not ready to spend then. Some folks got a good deal there

    Bindings going on 90 waist ski to pair with 108 ski with the speed turn staying on my old sentimental rock skis. Hopefully a five year ski so willing to wait if thereís better tech coming up

  11. #561
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Squaw valley
    Posts
    2,980
    Quote Originally Posted by cat in january View Post
    I will take a closer look at the Salomon mountain, but have speed turn 2 I could move over and not sure how much the Salomon changes the game from them. Like to leave the turn 2 on skis on now. If they went on new skis would get the bnd top plates as my poles donít play nice with the dynafits volcano

    Saw that sale on the helio 180. I was not ready to spend then. Some folks got a good deal there

    Bindings going on 90 waist ski to pair with 108 ski with the speed turn staying on my old sentimental rock skis. Hopefully a five year ski so willing to wait if thereís better tech coming up
    The advantage of the mtn is that it eliminates pre releases.
    It have really strong toe springs

    Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk

  12. #562
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Maine Coast
    Posts
    2,957
    Good to hear on mountain. Just from a spec sheet I like the alpinist first and zed second. What I like from reading about the alpinist is it deadens the harshness of tech toes the best in this category and has the sliding rear

  13. #563
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
    Posts
    3,533
    Quote Originally Posted by cat in january View Post
    What I like from reading about the alpinist is it deadens the harshness of tech toes the best in this category and has the sliding rear
    What you won't like about it is having to rotate the heelpiece to change lifter heights, and the "high" climbing level isn't very high at all. Other than that, it's a fine binding.

  14. #564
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by cat in january View Post
    Good to hear on mountain. Just from a spec sheet I like the alpinist first and zed second. What I like from reading about the alpinist is it deadens the harshness of tech toes the best in this category and has the sliding rear
    For what it's worth, I have 50+ days on Zeds and 20+ days on Alpinists and much prefer the Zeds. The risers on the Zeds are way easier to flip up with your pole, you don't need to rotate the heel to use the second riser, and the heel piece is easy to rotate from walk to ski mode with your pole (again, this is on the Zeds). I've had both bindings on the same pair of skis and didn't notice any difference in harshness.

  15. #565
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
    Posts
    3,533
    Quote Originally Posted by Jongle View Post
    The risers on the Zeds are way easier to flip up with your pole, you don't need to rotate the heel to use the second riser, and the heel piece is easy to rotate from walk to ski mode with your pole (again, this is on the Zeds).
    I've had friends complain about them rotating TOO easily (i.e. on their own) usually in high lifter position and wet conditions where the heel of the boot is pushing the spring-loaded heel unit rearward with each step . . .

  16. #566
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Mid-tomahawk
    Posts
    564
    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    I've had friends complain about them rotating TOO easily (i.e. on their own) usually in high lifter position and wet conditions where the heel of the boot is pushing the spring-loaded heel unit rearward with each step . . .
    I had issues with that on the first year ones (and found the sensation of the heel tower moving annoying). For year two they went to a stiffer spring for the length compensation (which retrofits to the older ones) which solved that issue for me. YMMV, I'm 165lb and have mostly skied them in 26.5 Hawx 130s (the older orange and black WTR sole ones).

  17. #567
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    68
    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    I've had friends complain about them rotating TOO easily (i.e. on their own) usually in high lifter position and wet conditions where the heel of the boot is pushing the spring-loaded heel unit rearward with each step . . .
    Yeah, I had this issue once or twice with my 1st-gen Zeds, but G3 switched to a stiffer heel spring for year two. They sent me a pair of the stiffer springs (for free), I swapped them out with the original springs and havenít had the heels slide rearward while using the lifters since then.

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