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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    Ramp angle?
    I'll measure when I get back in town
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    Ramp angle?
    Ditto


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    Buy used - mount your own skis - build a quiver

  3. #103
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    Why do some folks disfavor the U-spring models? Because you can't independently set vertical and lateral release? Or some other issue?

    Thinking about replacing the Kingpins on my Protests for one of these 300g options - leaning toward MTN or ATK/Hagan 12 (no U-spring).
    sproing!

    FS: 184 4FRNT Raven (2017) with momix skins https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...17-2018-model)

    FS: 187 Praxis GPO with STH14 binders https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...TH-14-bindings

    FS: crampons, lightweight winter down sleeping bag, and stuff https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ost?highlight=

  4. #104
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    May 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    Why do some folks disfavor the U-spring models? Because you can't independently set vertical and lateral release? Or some other issue?

    Thinking about replacing the Kingpins on my Protests for one of these 300g options - leaning toward MTN or ATK/Hagan 12 (no U-spring).
    Apparently the U springs wear down your heel insert faster and have less consistent release characteristics over time.

    Plus it's a pain to switch out a spring to change release values.

    There's a Blister Podcast with the guys at G3 where they discuss this (if I remember correctly it may even be linked elsewhere in this thread).

    If you end up going with the Hagans give me a a shout - I can get you a discount code.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    Why do some folks disfavor the U-spring models? Because you can't independently set vertical and lateral release? Or some other issue?

    Thinking about replacing the Kingpins on my Protests for one of these 300g options - leaning toward MTN or ATK/Hagan 12 (no U-spring).
    Looking at the MTNs or the Xenics personally
    Buy used - mount your own skis - build a quiver

  6. #106
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    Jan 2014
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    153
    crests look great. I have a pair or HR2.0s on skimo-y skis and they are the most precise, cleanest and solid light AT bindings ive ever had. Dunno if theres much to be gained with the MTNs at 100g heavier per ski and a U spring vs adjustable release.

    Anecdotally I can accept floating pins have better longevity vs U springs. Step in is def way easier too...

    @summit, can you remove the brakes from the crests?

    edit: Answered my own question i think, looks trivial...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sPfjzwSr8A

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    Looking at the MTNs or the Xenics personally
    I think I need my bindings to go to 11...
    Name:  These_go_to_Eleven.jpg
Views: 533
Size:  173.3 KB
    At least 11 anyway. I ski kinda like a fat kid.

    Quote Originally Posted by lazyasian View Post
    Apparently the U springs wear down your heel insert faster and have less consistent release characteristics over time.

    Plus it's a pain to switch out a spring to change release values.

    There's a Blister Podcast with the guys at G3 where they discuss this (if I remember correctly it may even be linked elsewhere in this thread).

    If you end up going with the Hagans give me a a shout - I can get you a discount code.
    Thanks for explaining! The Hagans/ATKs look so sick. But, after having been burned by Plum, I am extremely skeptical of customer service from small binding operations in Europe. I know Hagan is the US distributor (much better sitch than Plum), but I'm still skkkkeerrrrd. Really appreciate the offer, and may very well hit you up. Cheers!
    sproing!

    FS: 184 4FRNT Raven (2017) with momix skins https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...17-2018-model)

    FS: 187 Praxis GPO with STH14 binders https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...TH-14-bindings

    FS: crampons, lightweight winter down sleeping bag, and stuff https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ost?highlight=

  8. #108
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    Jan 2009
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    I can see how the mtn will wear the boot insert over time. I use the expert u spring and it requires heavy stomping to click in.

    But replacing the rear bit inserts is pretty easy.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

  9. #109
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    Sep 2006
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    Iím curious about the mtn. Theres a pair local to me, at a good price. Iíve been using kruzpitze heels, and I dig the weight and simplicity, but Iím getting a fair number of prereleases. Iíve been tying down my heel with a voile strap for commiting lines. Do the u springs fatigue in a season? Are people happy with the mtn overall, tough enough for a normal adult skiing a bunch?


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    Gravity always wins...

  10. #110
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    Sep 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by riff View Post
    I’ve been tying down my heel with a voile strap for commiting lines. Do the u springs fatigue in a season? Are people happy with the mtn overall, tough enough for a normal adult skiing a bunch?
    Is the idea with the strap that if the heel prereleases and the toes stay locked in, you'll just rebound back into the heel? Or is it to stop the prerelease altogether?

  11. #111
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    Aug 2007
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    The 300g Touring Binding Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    The Hagans/ATKs look so sick. But, after having been burned by Plum, I am extremely skeptical of customer service from small binding operations in Europe. I know Hagan is the US distributor (much better sitch than Plum), but I'm still skkkkeerrrrd. Really appreciate the offer, and may very well hit you up. Cheers!
    SFB has a million miles on his old Raiders and my wife and I are going on three seasons on our Raider 2.0ís and they are completely bomber. I know itís anecdotal, but weíre sold.
    And that Crest video is perfect ATK. Just nice eloquent design.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  12. #112
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    Sep 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    Is the idea with the strap that if the heel prereleases and the toes stay locked in, you'll just rebound back into the heel? Or is it to stop the prerelease altogether?
    Mostly stops the release altogether. Iíve had a large handful of mysterious low effort releases this year, and thought i had it fixed after warrantying some the old radical toes, but the issue continues. I tend to ski with the toes locked after many years of feeling insecure on pins, and rip skins without taking off the skis, so pins are clean.
    Iíve generally been happy with my tectons for pow touring, but the toe seems pretty flexible while touring on firm surface, and theyíre just too heavy for big days. Iím looking to find something a bit more reliable than the race heels but not as heavy as tectons.


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    Gravity always wins...

  13. #113
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by riff View Post
    Mostly stops the release altogether. I’ve had a large handful of mysterious low effort releases this year, and thought i had it fixed after warrantying some the old radical toes, but the issue continues. I tend to ski with the toes locked after many years of feeling insecure on pins, and rip skins without taking off the skis, so pins are clean.
    I’ve generally been happy with my tectons for pow touring, but the toe seems pretty flexible while touring on firm surface, and they’re just too heavy for big days. I’m looking to find something a bit more reliable than the race heels but not as heavy as tectons.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I'm a pretty major weight-weenie, but I think the performance increase from a race heel to an mtn heel is worth the penalty. I switch between men's springs in winter and expert springs in spring. I can't imagine prereleasing the expert spring. It is stiff! Having used multiple pairs of race heels (Plum, Trab, Dynafit), the MTN has considerably less play, especially over time. The pins wear more evenly, and I'd suspect there is less insert wear due to the pins' ability to rotate. I still keep race heels on race skis and traverse skis, but am much more confident in the MTN in higher consequence terrain, and for more frequent use. I also like that I can keep a spare MTN heel spring in my repair kit, and it takes 2 min to replace in field.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by trogdortheburninator View Post
    I'm a pretty major weight-weenie, but I think the performance increase from a race heel to an mtn heel is worth the penalty. I switch between men's springs in winter and expert springs in spring. I can't imagine prereleasing the expert spring. It is stiff! Having used multiple pairs of race heels (Plum, Trab, Dynafit), the MTN has considerably less play, especially over time. The pins wear more evenly, and I'd suspect there is less insert wear due to the pins' ability to rotate. I still keep race heels on race skis and traverse skis, but am much more confident in the MTN in higher consequence terrain, and for more frequent use. I also like that I can keep a spare MTN heel spring in my repair kit, and it takes 2 min to replace in field.
    Thanks for chiming in -- your opinion is super valuable. Have you used the speed superlight 2.0 heel? Does play develop in the u-spring? Besides play are there other performance increases in your mind switching to the MTN heel?
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  15. #115
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    The 300g Touring Binding Thread

    Solid beta and delightful point about field service on the spring. Iím getting closer to grabbing these.


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    Gravity always wins...

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by riff View Post
    Iím curious about the mtn. Theres a pair local to me, at a good price. Iíve been using kruzpitze heels, and I dig the weight and simplicity, but Iím getting a fair number of prereleases. Iíve been tying down my heel with a voile strap for commiting lines. Do the u springs fatigue in a season? Are people happy with the mtn overall, tough enough for a normal adult skiing a bunch?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    I can't say enough good things about them.
    Very strong toe springs, no pre releases.

    Nice that you don't have to rotate the heel to get into tour mode.

    Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

  17. #117
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    Why do some folks disfavor the U-spring models? Because you can't independently set vertical and lateral release? Or some other issue?

    Thinking about replacing the Kingpins on my Protests for one of these 300g options - leaning toward MTN or ATK/Hagan 12 (no U-spring).
    did you read the whole 5 pages ?

    we already discussed it
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by auvgeek View Post
    Thanks for chiming in -- your opinion is super valuable. Have you used the speed superlight 2.0 heel? Does play develop in the u-spring? Besides play are there other performance increases in your mind switching to the MTN heel?
    I haven't personally used the SSL2 heel. Folks who I trust say it is a rock solid heel. Personally, I dont want a heel that I have to rotate to transition. I'd assume based on the design it will wear more like a standard race heel.

    Overall, I think of the MTN as an excellent compromise binding.
    Compared to a race binding, i get appreciably better retention and less play. I get enough length adjust to go from a race boot to a maestrale. I subjectively "feel" that the toe retention is also better than any race binding i've used. In winter I tour 80% of the time unlocked on the MTN, just because I can. Dynafit SSL and LTR toes have a really positive engage, but the propensity for cracking is a bit of a turn off in non-race situations - still a beautiful toe IMO, just with limitations. Plum race toe is noticeably less stiff in springs than MTN or LTR. I've never seen a cracked plum race toe, but I have had mine unlock itself pretty often when I wish it wouldnt (e.g. skiing firm snow in consequential terrain). On my current LTRs (manual locking) I've had the binding unlock itself too. This never happened on my previous auto-locking LTR. I would be psyched if the MTN could drop 50+ g, but I'm not too concerned. I've thought about chopping the high riser, but that seems a bit impulsive, and every now and then its nice breaking trail in deep snow.

    Ignoring weight altogether, and just focusing on subjective and objective ski performance (which includes retention, power transfer, durability IMO), I'd rank the tech bindings I've owned in the following order:
    Trab TR2 (toe and heel)
    Salomon MTN (toe and heel)
    G3 Ion LT (toe)
    Dynafit Radical (toe)
    Dynafit Comfort (toe and heel)
    G3 ION LT (heel)
    Dynafit LTR2 (toe)
    Plum 150/170 (toe and heel)
    Old trab race (toe and heel)
    Dynafit LTR2 (heel)

    I'd like to try some of the 200g ATKs still.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by trogdortheburninator View Post
    I'd like to try some of the 200g ATKs still.
    Would love to know where the ATKs placed in your list.
    Quote Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post
    Nice that you don't have to rotate the heel to get into tour mode.
    Rotating the heels isn't a deal breaker for me, but wouldn't it be nice if it wasn't necessary? A real benefit.

  20. #120
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    Awesome. Thanks for the detailed response, Jason. I'd also like to try some of those 200g heels. The BD Helio (rebranded ATK) 200 without the adjustment plate is 165g with adjustable lateral and vertical release and looks sick. Toe engagement is always a question, and I don't know anyone who's used it extensively.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    did you read the whole 5 pages ?

    we already discussed it
    I did, and now I just re-read it. Folks just said they disliked the u-spring, but not why. Must be another thread. Anyhoo....

    Thanks Trog for the rando-view, and SFB for the comments on the Alpinist. Pretty much sold if I can squeeze another mount into these protests.
    sproing!

    FS: 184 4FRNT Raven (2017) with momix skins https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...17-2018-model)

    FS: 187 Praxis GPO with STH14 binders https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...TH-14-bindings

    FS: crampons, lightweight winter down sleeping bag, and stuff https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ost?highlight=

  22. #122
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    Oct 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    ATK Crest 280 bindings
    I measured this at 286g for a half pair including 102mm brakes, 311g including screws and crampon attachment (removable 7g).

    Attachment 258559

    Made of Aluminum and Steel
    Fully and independently adjustable lateral and vertical retention settings DIN 5-10 (no u-spring!)
    4mm gap + 5mm forward travel (Elastic Response System)
    20mm of BSL adjustment
    Precision bomber construction
    Flat + 2 heel elevator settings

    Nothing else has the combination of forward travel, underfoot brakes, and infinite/independent release adjustment for its weight range.

    They are basically inbetween a BD Helio 200 (aka ATK Haute Route 2.0) and the Hagan Core 12 (aka ATK Raider 12). They should offer the downhill performance of a Core 12 (at DIN 10) at a few grams less weight than the Hagan Ride 10 (aka ATK RT 2.0). Vs the Ride/RT, the Crest is slightly lighter while gaining the smoothness/retention of 4mm "elastic" forward travel and has underboot brakes for better power transfer while sacrificing the touring mode retention adjust and 10mm of BSL adjustment (30mm vs 20mm).

    Crest 280 are new this year. Hagan Mountaineering is happy to import these for you otherwise you must order direct from Europe shop that ships transatlantic.

    These were exactly what I wanted for my 99mm underfoot patterned bases from Voile (Hyper V6 BC) which are soft and have camber, as I need the pin gap 4mm to float for decambering in touring plus 4mm more of forward travel for skiing and dampness. I didn't think the Marker Alpinist would have sufficed for flex on this soft cambered ski and the Zed would have added notable weight, so my next choice would have been the Hagan Core 12 without a doubt, particularly if I wanted DIN 12 and some extra length adjustability + more riser settings.
    Circling back. Has anyone seen the Crest in person?
    Buy used - mount your own skis - build a quiver

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by margotron View Post
    Circling back. Has anyone seen the Crest in person?
    I ski them. So does the wife. Good binding.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  24. #124
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by meter-man View Post
    Why do some folks disfavor the U-spring models? Because you can't independently set vertical and lateral release? Or some other issue?

    Thinking about replacing the Kingpins on my Protests for one of these 300g options - leaning toward MTN or ATK/Hagan 12 (no U-spring).
    My bad we ranted on about it in a different thread

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...-binding/page3

    for me I would fall between ranges of a U-spring so do I ski slower on a medium U spring or put on 50lbs and use the heavy spring ?

    and then I always set the vertical DIN 1 higher cuz it stops pre-release and I can't do that if seperate adjustment ( or any adjustment ? ) is not possible

    SO, I would say some are into light weight at any cost, some are into pretty light with as much safety as the Tech design can offer ... do whatever works for you
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  25. #125
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    Sep 2010
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    IMHO, u-springs suffer three major problems, though most of them are (at least partially) alleviated in the new class of "speed touring" u-spring bindings:

    1. Lack of adjustable release value (RV) aka DIN on an alpine binding. Race bindings have zero adjustability -- the RV is what it is. Speed touring binders have a different options for some form of adjustable release: some offer adjustable lateral release with fixed vertical release (Dynafit SSL), some offer different weight springs (MTN, ATK/BD Helio 145 ), etc. For some people, this lack of adjustable release is less safe. Others (like myself) use various explanations/rationalizations to make themselves think it's fine. Some take a SSL and dremel the U-spring until the vertical release is where they want it. Yikes.

    2. Lack of riser heights. Race bindings have a single flap = one riser height. Speed touring bindings get pretty close to a classic tech binder with flat + 2 heights, though sometimes this requires rotating the heel by hand.

    3. U-springs wear = slop. Again, more of a problem on race bindings with titanium u-springs, but steel wears out, too. Yes, you can replace the u-spring, but that kinda sucks to do. Though frankly, I'm not sure if this is worse than slop in the bsl adjustment worm screw...

    In the other thread, Summit mentioned a research paper that concluded U-springs were less safe than non-U-springs, even when the RV was set perfectly. But I can't speak to that because I can't find the paper.

    Personally, I'm really excited for the newest class of 200g - 300g non-U-spring options, mostly from ATK it seems. The BD Helio 200 (ATK Haute Route) without adjustment plate is 165g and features adjustable lateral and vertical release with 3 riser heights. The ATK Crest is 280g with integrated adjustment plate with forward travel to prevent pre-release due to ski flex and a brake. Really awesome at 280g. Unfortunately, neither of these options have been out that long and I don't know personally anyone who's opinion I trust who owns them.

    And then we have this new 49g monstrosity from Dynafit:
    Name:  pintech-49-binding.jpg
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Size:  38.5 KB

    https://skimo.co/dynafit-p49-bindings
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

    photos

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