The 300g Touring Binding Thread

[timmaio]

I personally skip the 300g category and go to the sub 200g category.

I've been extremely happy running dynafit ultralight or speed radical alu toes, with a kreuspitze SCTT or Plum heel piece on a Kreuspitze heel adjustment plate, that allows pattern matching to dynafit speed radical.

Easy, bomber, simple, featherweight.

I generally do as well. Most of my setups are ATK SL WC, either mounted fixed or on an adjustment plate. I think the heavier options for 'durability' are not worth it, but I am interested in a bit more forgiveness. I feel much more comfortable getting air on my Crest bindings knowing that if I land hard it won't break the binding. I'm also looking to reduce the icing/snow packing problem with all toes that I have experienced(usually shows up being difficult to remove the binding from boot). I also generally really like having an adjustment plate. I change boots more frequently than I change skis, so it's nice to have that option.

My ideal would be 250g with brakes, 200g without:
icing resistant toe with good crampon receptor, simple race style flap for heel. ATK RIS heel spring(if U spring) or other mechanism to reduce wear on metal parts. elastic travel.

[rod9301]

rod is def. a mtn fanboi.


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Yep, they have all the features that i like

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[f=ma]

Yep, they have all the features that i like

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How do you feel about the Atomic Backlands?


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[sheel44]

I’m currently in the market for a binding in this weight class. Ranked performance criteria are: reliability, touring ease and ski performance. I keep coming back to the Plum Pika as checking these boxes, as it is based on a simple and proven design, has a single heel lift that is accessible with a pole from flat mode and has stiff toe springs and a reasonable ramp angle. Salomon MTN is the closest alternative, but reports of sloppy lifters and play in the heel don’t inspire long term confidence. Ski Trab Vario 2 is interesting, but hasn’t been around for all that long. ATK is of course a thought too, but brakes and elastic travel are moving pieces that are subject to icing/not working sometimes. Im in Canada too, so ATK is more difficult to source than others. I’m not really interested in going to a race style heel due to lack of ramp/flat touring modes. What does the collective say? Am I missing something with the Pika, or is it the Speed Rad that Dynafit should have made? Is the Ski Trab toe good enough to accept somewhat unknown heel piece reliability and some heel rise compromise? Should I just follow the TGR train to the nearest ATK dealer? I’m interested in hearing anyone’s thoughts/experiences on these or other options. Thanks!

I have the Ski Trab Gara Titan (a race version of the Titan Vario, but I think the toe pieces are very similar). I think in terms of reliability it is bomber, and I have spent around ~70 days in the backcountry on this thing in all conditions. There is a heel riser, and a flat mode on the heel piece. I come out when I need to and have not had an issue pre-releasing. The toe does ice up sometimes on touring up, especially if you are breaking trail, which is just kinda annoying (adds like a minute to your transition). But Ski Trab in general makes very durable stuff

[timmaio]

I am thinking more about return to center(both force and angle) as I play with a new pair of Vario.2 bindings.

Comparing the ATK bindings I have to the Trab the difference is striking. I rotated each heel piece just until it would stay put and not come back to center. The ATK SL WC was the least angle(FYI I also just tried this on a Trofeo and it is no different from the SL WC), an older RT was pretty much equally as poor. The Crest did better, but still nothing like the Trab. A Salomon MTN did similar to the Crest, maybe slightly better. The Trab was just amazing how much I had to rotate it before it would not spring back to the middle.







I'd like to try the same experiment with the Trab race bindings and Dynafit and PLUM bindings. This is something I never really thought about before

[Westcoaster]

I don't think that necessarily translates to lateral heel elasticity. Re atk & mtn, by the time your heel is that far off axis the toe jaws will likely have popped.

[teamdirt]

Big fan of bd helio 180, aka atk trufeo. Been shredding mtns too. Both great!

[Benneke10]

I am thinking more about return to center(both force and angle) as I play with a new pair of Vario.2 bindings.

Comparing the ATK bindings I have to the Trab the difference is striking. I rotated each heel piece just until it would stay put and not come back to center. The ATK SL WC was the least angle(FYI I also just tried this on a Trofeo and it is no different from the SL WC), an older RT was pretty much equally as poor. The Crest did better, but still nothing like the Trab. A Salomon MTN did similar to the Crest, maybe slightly better. The Trab was just amazing how much I had to rotate it before it would not spring back to the middle.

This is the kind of nerdery I come here for! Can you compare the force it takes to turn the heelpieces laterally between those bindings? I know they all advertise roughly an 8 RV, other than the Crest which is adjustable. I'm a Crest user at 8 thinking of getting some World Cups, is the stiffness comprable?

[rod9301]

How do you feel about the Atomic Backlands?


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Have a pair

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[timmaio]

This is the kind of nerdery I come here for! Can you compare the force it takes to turn the heelpieces laterally between those bindings? I know they all advertise roughly an 8 RV, other than the Crest which is adjustable. I'm a Crest user at 8 thinking of getting some World Cups, is the stiffness comprable?

That's much more difficult for me to objectively measure. The best approach would be if I had access to a binding release tester which I don't. If anyone in Summit County CO has one to lend me I'd be very happy to test.

[galibier_numero_un]

I don't think that necessarily translates to lateral heel elasticity. Re atk & mtn, by the time your heel is that far off axis the toe jaws will likely have popped.

Beat me to the punch. Also, the heel pins would have popped out well before the rotation shown in the Trab photo.

A real world test would be interesting, however.

... Thom

[Mountain Relish]

Just a quick update as I have had a lot more time on my Vario 2.0s. The one issue I have had is that the flap for the riser is not very secure. On my ATKs it clips into the pins when I fold it over, but on the Ski Trab it just sits there. It is only an issue when there is some kind of crust and I am breaking trail, as the ski flex causes it to sometimes flip up, which is annoying. Not a deal breaker for me, but it is a shame on a binding that otherwise seems to have been so well designed.

Also I think that the way you clip in with be a really subjective factor. I have now used them in some trickier situations, and I love it, but I can see that for anybody who is a bit less flexible it might be quite difficult.

[XXX-er]

wouldn't that return to center action just depend on where the flats were milled on binding post ?

the background of these gear picts is always interesting and I'm not too sure about that carpet

[fleaches]

the background of these gear picts is always interesting and I'm not too sure about that carpet

It really ties the room together



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[XXX-er]

perhaps with enough of the right drugs Man

[CirqueScaler]

Can anyone discuss how much ski performance comes from lateral elasticity vs. back and forth elasticity? I'm leaning towards getting the Titan Vario.2, but I wonder if the Gara Titan will be a significant portion of the ski performance for less weight.

I really don't know much about how any of this works.

[thecazdog]

I'm curious about the Vario2 as well...but this season I'll be playing around with a hybrid setup.

Trab toe (same as Vario2) - for better elasticity than ATK toes (along with a few mm shim to reduce ramp angle)
ATK FR14 2.0 heel - for freeride spacer and good variety of heel risers

Comes in at 650g for the pair. Will have to run leashes, but excited by the possibilities. Lateral release at the toe is the only thing missing.

[margotron]

I'm curious about the Vario2 as well...but this season I'll be playing around with a hybrid setup.

Trab toe (same as Vario2) - for better elasticity than ATK toes (along with a few mm shim to reduce ramp angle)
ATK FR14 2.0 heel - for freeride spacer and good variety of heel risers

Comes in at 650g for the pair. Will have to run leashes, but excited by the possibilities. Lateral release at the toe is the only thing missing.

Tecton toe?

[jdadour]

On the Marker Alpinist, I've measured a positive ramp of +3mm on both my Lupo Pro HD and Roxa 130 Ti. Used Alpine soles on both so I could compare measurements with my Pivot 18s set at -1mm ramp.

These are stated as a flat ramp binding with a measured -1.7mm ramp on Wildsnow. Has anyone found this too feel off in that sense and be too flat of a ramp?

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[gregL]

On the Marker Alpinist, I've measured a positive ramp of +3mm on both my Lupo Pro HD and Roxa 130 Ti. Used Alpine soles on both so I could compare measurements with my Pivot 18s set at -1mm ramp.

These are stated as a flat ramp binding with a measured -1.7mm ramp on Wildsnow. Has anyone found this too feel off in that sense and be too flat of a ramp?

Feels too flat for me, too. My ideal is 7.5mm plus or minus 2mm (when the heel is higher than the toe most people call it "positive" ramp) - Dynafit Superlite 2.0 was right on, Salomon MTN/Atomic Backland is fine (8.5), Kingpin was OK (9.5), BD Helio 145/ATK Trofeo felt too flat (.5) . . . interior ramp in AT boots varies as well, many are flatter than typical alpine boots (4 degrees is most common).

[jdadour]

Feels too flat for me, too. My ideal is 7.5mm plus or minus 2mm (when the heel is higher than the toe most people call it "positive" ramp) - Dynafit Superlite 2.0 was right on, Salomon MTN/Atomic Backland is fine (8.5), Kingpin was OK (9.5), BD Helio 145/ATK Trofeo felt too flat (.5) . . . interior ramp in AT boots varies as well, many are flatter than typical alpine boots (4 degrees is most common).

In this case, the toe is 3mm higher than the heel, which results in a positive angle up, so I referred to it a positive ramp.

I like my pivots "flat" at -1mm, as opposed to -5mm without the toe shims. I'm wondering how the +3mm on the Alpinist will work out, need to get more days on them to feel it out a bit more. If it's a problem, a rectangle heel shim should not be very difficult to fabricate.

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[Spyderjon]

jdadour, your terminology is incorrect. The binding industry refers to positive delta when the heel is taller than the toe and negative delta is when the toe is higher than the heel. There isn't a binding on the market that is made with negative delta, the only way to achieve that is to shim the toe binding.

[XavierD]

Silveretta had negative ramp angle IRC.

[galibier_numero_un]

Feels too flat for me, too. My ideal is 7.5mm plus or minus 2mm (when the heel is higher than the toe most people call it "positive" ramp) - Dynafit Superlite 2.0 was right on, Salomon MTN/Atomic Backland is fine (8.5), Kingpin was OK (9.5), BD Helio 145/ATK Trofeo felt too flat (.5) . . . interior ramp in AT boots varies as well, many are flatter than typical alpine boots (4 degrees is most common).

Pretty much where I fall with Zero Gs ... maybe as flat as 5mm (Helio 200/Haute Route with the adjuster plate) and as ramped as 11mm (Vipecs).

... Thom

[jdadour]

jdadour, your terminology is incorrect. The binding industry refers to positive delta when the heel is taller than the toe and negative delta is when the toe is higher than the heel. There isn't a binding on the market that is made with negative delta, the only way to achieve that is to shim the toe binding.

Thanks for clarifying, didn't realize that's how it worked negative vs positive.

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