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  1. #326
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    My limited experiences driving in Europe seem to indicate that they are far ahead of U.S. drivers in getting people from point A to point B efficiently.
    In my experience, 9/10 of why Europeans appear to be better drivers is training/testing. The limited skill set required to get a license in the US is laughable. But even in Europe, there’s a clear hierarchy of driver quality, generally corresponding to training/testing requirements, which are generally more strict in Northern Europe and less so in Eastern and Southern Europe.* The penalties levied for unsafe driving are also quite harsh, with traffic enforcement generally used to enhance road safety, rather than as a revenue source, as is more common in the US.**


    * No, I don’t have specific examples, outliers definitely exist (UK & Eire jump to mind), and they’re almost all significantly stricter than in the USA.
    ** Not to say that there’s not a revenue component in Europe. I got my first speeding ticket in Germany and it was a doozy, although conveniently payable on the spot.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  2. #327
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    152
    Quote Originally Posted by Mallthus View Post
    I got my first speeding ticket in Germany and it was a doozy, although conveniently payable on the spot.
    Years back in Alaska there was a state trooper who targeted "Out of state" drivers. He politely informed them that he could take care of the fine on the spot if they had cash. A German speaking undercover officer driving a rental put an end to that cash cow. I do not know what kind of tires the convicted state trooper used.

  3. #328
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    2,784
    I'm wondering where the thread is on, 'Why your AWD sedan doesN'T suck in the mountains.'?
    "We don't beat the reaper by living longer, we beat the reaper by living well and living fully." - Randy Pausch

  4. #329
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    truckee
    Posts
    8,892
    I hate it when the right lane is plowed well and the left lane is deep rutted snow. All the trucks and people going slow are in the right lane but you can't pass them safely in the left lane. Nothing to do but be patient.

    Friends picked me up on the way to Squaw this morning (I was super stoked to get to park in the carpool lot) and their Audi SUV slid and fishtailed through the stop sign on Donner Pass Rd at the Donner Lake interchange--a notoriously icy spot which he approached at a reasonable speed. I told him he should get winter tires. He said he had Pirelli Scorpions. Be warned.

  5. #330
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    1,307
    Quote Originally Posted by Mallthus View Post
    In my experience, 9/10 of why Europeans appear to be better drivers is training/testing. The limited skill set required to get a license in the US is laughable. But even in Europe, there’s a clear hierarchy of driver quality, generally corresponding to training/testing requirements, which are generally more strict in Northern Europe and less so in Eastern and Southern Europe.* The penalties levied for unsafe driving are also quite harsh, with traffic enforcement generally used to enhance road safety, rather than as a revenue source, as is more common in the US.**


    * No, I don’t have specific examples, outliers definitely exist (UK & Eire jump to mind), and they’re almost all significantly stricter than in the USA.
    ** Not to say that there’s not a revenue component in Europe. I got my first speeding ticket in Germany and it was a doozy, although conveniently payable on the spot.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    there's also a vehicle component. vehicles sold in the US die in the US. they don't end up in eastern europe. US vehicle licensing (aside from emissions in some jurisdictions) is effectively "do whatever the fuck you want". bald tires? no problem. nobody gonna give a fuck. it's not that people don't know it's that they've no incentive to give a fuck.

  6. #331
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    27,938
    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    there's also a vehicle component. vehicles sold in the US die in the US. they don't end up in eastern europe. US vehicle licensing (aside from emissions in some jurisdictions) is effectively "do whatever the fuck you want". bald tires? no problem. nobody gonna give a fuck. it's not that people don't know it's that they've no incentive to give a fuck.
    I don't think many in the US have a clue how stringent some Euro vehicle inspections are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  7. #332
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Der Town
    Posts
    5,824
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Pirelli Scorpions. Be warned.
    I had a set of those on an Impreza I owned. They were the winter variant. They had really good deep/loose snow performance for a car tire but didn't have very good ice driving performance.

  8. #333
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    OR
    Posts
    1,250
    Quote Originally Posted by flowing alpy View Post
    went with the DMV2’s on the Ford.
    That's a good winter tire. are they sitting on pizza cutters or did you do the reasonable thing and get 18 inch wheels for em?

  9. #334
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    4,398
    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    I don't think many in the US have a clue how stringent some Euro vehicle inspections are.
    Utah got rid of tire inspections maybe 2 or 3 years ago. Was a good thing to check, I thought, before going up LCC in winter. Do they check tires in Europe?

    j/k

  10. #335
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    27,938
    Quote Originally Posted by muted View Post
    Do they check tires in Europe?

    j/k
    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...cked-at-an-mot

    ^ UK annual test for all cars over three years old.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  11. #336
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    north aspect
    Posts
    39,790
    Quote Originally Posted by klauss View Post
    That's a good winter tire. are they sitting on pizza cutters or did you do the reasonable thing and get 18 inch wheels for em?
    20”s cuz i just wanted it to be over with
    they’re more svelte than the KO2’s they
    replaced and i sure feel their gooieness.
    bF
    Alpental Indigenous

  12. #337
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Portland by way of Bozeman
    Posts
    2,736
    Quote Originally Posted by GeezerSteve View Post
    I guess that depends on what you mean "in the mountains." Icy and/or snowy roads are common throughout the winter in places in the northern interior west that are not actually "in the mountains," e.g., central and E WA and much of MT. I-90 through MT is often icy and snowy, and side roads off the interstate often stay icy and/or snowy throughout the winter. Missoula, Bozeman and Livingston are surrounded by mountains, but not "in the mountains."
    Both Bozeman and Livingston are at considerable elevation and spend much of the winter with snow and ice through out town. In those instances, whether actually in the mountains, one might as well consider them as in the mountains. Bozeman starts at 4800 feet.

    Quote Originally Posted by skaredshtles View Post
    Just please make sure to stay in the right lane - for the sake of all those people that DID purchase proper snow/ice tires.

    FKNA eleventy billions times this!

    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    I hate it when the right lane is plowed well and the left lane is deep rutted snow. All the trucks and people going slow are in the right lane but you can't pass them safely in the left lane. Nothing to do but be patient.

    Friends picked me up on the way to Squaw this morning (I was super stoked to get to park in the carpool lot) and their Audi SUV slid and fishtailed through the stop sign on Donner Pass Rd at the Donner Lake interchange--a notoriously icy spot which he approached at a reasonable speed. I told him he should get winter tires. He said he had Pirelli Scorpions. Be warned.
    That's where snow/ice tires pay dividends; confidence in passing during sketchy conditions.

    And, there are many variants of the Scorpion, including those for motorcycles. Sounds like your buddy didn't have the snow/ice variant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leavenworth Skier View Post
    I had a set of those on an Impreza I owned. They were the winter variant. They had really good deep/loose snow performance for a car tire but didn't have very good ice driving performance.
    Beat me to it.

  13. #338
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    truckee
    Posts
    8,892
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig View Post
    Both Bozeman and Livingston are at considerable elevation and spend much of the winter with snow and ice through out town. In those instances, whether actually in the mountains, one might as well consider them as in the mountains. Bozeman starts at 4800 feet.


    FKNA eleventy billions times this!


    That's where snow/ice tires pay dividends; confidence in passing during sketchy conditions.

    And, there are many variants of the Scorpion, including those for motorcycles. Sounds like your buddy didn't have the snow/ice variant.


    Beat me to it.
    he has the winter version

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