Why your SUV sucks in the mountains

[plugboots]

^^^We have 2 cars w/ Ice X now. Love them.

[snowaddict91]

Ice X look comparable in price to Blizzaks. Sumitomos are over $100 less total. I don't normally cheap out on tires but may consider these.

Not running studded haks on a car in SLC. Too much warm/dry freeway driving.

[nickel]

all the Hakkas i ever ran were the non-studded variety. Definitely still superior to the Ice X but not double the price superior.

[Norseman]

X Ice are a great choice for commuting to the mtns... well behaved on dry and wet, good wear, low noise, good snow traction.

A few others have better absolute snow traction but take a hit with the other points.

IMO

[Telemarketeer]

Get some Hakk's and call it good. Every year, so simple.

Every year? The Hakk's on my wife's Subaru last three winters, but we usually take em off in the summer. That's with frequent commuting over Vail Pass.

[Ted Striker]

Agree with Norseman.

At one point we had two Subarus at the same time with hakks (no studs), blizzaks, and x-ices over several winters. My totally non-scientific observations were that the hakks and blizzaks were slightly better in deeper snow, and the blizzaks and x-ices were slightly better on pure ice (studs probably would've changed the winner on that though). The x-ices were a lot better (and quieter) on dry pavement than the other two, with the blizzaks being the squirmiest.

But the bottom line is that you can't really go wrong between those three. I'd say choose based on the ratio of clear/ice/snow you encounter.

[snowaddict91]

Cool. I'm leaning towards the x-ices but may take a gamble and give the sumitomos a try. $250 price difference between the two.

[old goat]

I gotr 7 winters out of a set x ices. That's with adequate tread per the tire store. Maybe not as effective in deep snow as new tires but they handled the packed powder and groomed roads I drive just fine. And 5 of those years were drought years.

[bodywhomper]

Wheels:
What’s the overunder on finding used wheels for a vehicle? It looks like most/all junkyards in my area use car-parts.com. Has that been working out for others? Craigslist and FB marketplace is a pita. Also, what’s exceptable “offset” difference from stock? I found somebody selling used corolla wheels near me. According to wheel-size.com, they are 2mm smaller offset than stock wheels for my matrix? That sounds insignificant to me. Am I missing something?

Is there a good resource to know/understand what whee size will fit? Tire rack recommends a 15” wheel for that car, but oem is 16 or 17”. If I can find them at an acceptable $, I’d like to get second wheels for all my vehicles. I may between $50-60 to mount tires to my wheels.

Tires:
I’ve used one or two versions of blizzaks, nokian wr2, and several sets general Altimax artics on a subi legacy. Tahoe and foothill driving that includes wet and dry roads. The arctics have been the best for me, considering that their soft compound runs deeper in the blocks than the blizzaks, ie, I still get winter traction when the tire is more worn. The generals have incrementally increases in price. Im curious about those sumitomo’s.

[plugboots]

Norse, Ted, and goat mirror my experience. Now I’ve added one or two trips in winter across Eastern Washington, (Seattle to WSU), which is basically dry pavement, dry snow or black ice, (with a wet snow Mtn. pass thrown in), and they seem to be about the best compromise for that ~250 mile drive. Especially on cars with all wheel drive which are the two vehicles we use with them.

[bigdude2468]

I have a Ford Explorer and found a set of four 18” exact same wheels for $200 on Craigslist. Had to drive about 80 miles to get them but definitely worth it.

[snowaddict91]

Finding cheap wheels depends a lot on the vehicle and if aftermarket upgrades are common. I was looking this morning for our Rav4 and there is only 1 set of stock wheels on ksl. There are probably at least 10 sets for my F150.

2mm of offset won't matter. Actually, I should see if other toyota wheels fit the Rav4.

[Ted Striker]

Wheels:
What’s the overunder on finding used wheels for a vehicle? It looks like most/all junkyards in my area use car-parts.com. Has that been working out for others? Craigslist and FB marketplace is a pita. Also, what’s exceptable “offset” difference from stock? I found somebody selling used corolla wheels near me. According to wheel-size.com, they are 2mm smaller offset than stock wheels for my matrix? That sounds insignificant to me. Am I missing something?

A 2mm offset difference is insignificant.

There's positive and negative offset wheels (and of course zero offset)

On the exact same car, a wheel with greater positive (or less negative) offset will sit farther into the wheel well and will risk rubbing on the inner fender. A wheel with less positive (or more negative) offset will sit farther out of the wheel well, and will risk rubbing the fender arch.

[El Chupacabra]

2mm offset difference doesn't matter.

If you're using an OEM wheel from a different vehicle on your vehicle, you should check not just the bolt pattern, but also the center hole size (some vehicles have a piece that protrudes out into the center of the wheel) and the type of lug nut (conical is most common, but there are different ones - eg can't use a conical nut on a wheel designed for a shouldered flat nut, you'd need new lug nuts).

Google for enthusiast forums for answers on your questions on wheels. There's a forum for every car.

[bodywhomper]

Thanks, all!

Some of the vehicle-specific forums are worst rabbit holes that here!

[snowaddict91]

Thanks, all!

Some of the vehicle-specific forums are worst rabbit holes that here!

Very true! Looks like camry wheels should fit our rav4 as well. Opens the options up a bit

[ill-advised strategy]

In the 4wd community there are folks who claim Detroit lockers are the best option in slick condition because it’s predictable. In other words you will always be on the verge of loosing control. No thanks.

I drive a fleet of commercial medium-duty Internationals with Detroits, they’re not squirrely or hard to control at all. They work (handling, traction, and braking) better than the open diff ones I also drive... and it’s not a small difference either.

[MakersTeleMark]

Every year? The Hakk's on my wife's Subaru last three winters, but we usually take em off in the summer. That's with frequent commuting over Vail Pass.

I meant that it's the correct and simple answer year after year.

[MakersTeleMark]

I drive a fleet of commercial medium-duty Internationals with Detroits, they’re not squirrely or hard to control at all. They work (handling, traction, and braking) better than the open diff ones I also drive... and it’s not a small difference either.

I run with a Detroit in the rear and a posi up front and I've never had an issue unless rapidly choking off the fuel and the front may want to hook up a bit hard for a second.

[ill-advised strategy]

detroits have their own problems....that detroit clunk, heavy tire wear....but winter handling has not been an issue for the fleet I drive.

[m2711c]

[snowaddict91]

detroits have their own problems....that detroit clunk, heavy tire wear....but winter handling has not been an issue for the fleet I drive.

Wheelbase and weight mitigate it a lot. There is a huge difference between a jeep or a CCLB truck with a detroit. Longer wheelbase seems much more predictable and less likely to swap ends in a turn. Guessing its even less noticeable in a big ole bus or dump truck with a 20 ft wheelbase.

[jamal]

Offset is important from more than just a tire rubbing on stuff standpoint. Obviously the tires need to not rub on the body/suspension, but assuming that all clears, the scrub radius needs to stay the same as well. When you steer, there's a pivot point on the ground. Generally this is somewhere near the centerline of the tread and the distance between the two is the scrub radius. A large amount of positive scrub, that would come from putting on lower offset wheels that stick out too far, is not good, especially in the winter. When you hit a bump or something with one front wheel, it will have more leverage to steer the tire. So think about hitting deep snow or slush with just one side of the car- positive scrub will also make the car want to steer in that direction. More modern suspension has gone to a negative scrub radius so these steering forces are now working to keep the car straighter. For example, front suspensions with two lower ball joints to make the virtual pivot farther out without a resulting huge SAI.

If you're having a hard time figuring out your wheel specs, usually they are stamped/cast into the wheel somewhere, usually on the back of a spoke or in the voids between lug nut holes.

[bodywhomper]

Thx!!

Personally, I wasn’t having a hard time figuring out specs on my vehicles. I’m searching for used wheels that will fit on my vehicles, I’m trying to figure out what other vehicle wheels will work for my cars, eg, supposedly, tundra and land cruiser. Over the weekend, I found a set on CL that were 2mm difference in offset, which lead me to ask up thread. I was surprised of the very slight difference because it was matrix vs Corolla, same gens, i think, and the matrix is supposedly known as the “Corolla Matrix” in some areas.

[Cocximus]

Try https://www.wheel-size.com/ and go by rim size. You can play with the numbers a bit. Arguably you can get rims with a bigger center bore if you do your own tire changeover and do it carefully.