Truck Sled compatibility, bed length

[skibrd]

A year later then planned, I’m finally getting around to getting a truck and sled. Yeah me.

A few questions popped up that I’m sure you guys can answer. My goals for this endeavor is to have a truck I move one sled around with. I live in Wyoming, so most of the time I’ll be in and around the Tetons. The idea is to have the option to travel around the US and up to Canada with the sled, and having the option to carry a second sled on a sled deck would be nice, but a sled deck is a year 2 or 3 goal.

I can’t tow a trailer over a few of the mountain passes around home in the winter (specifically Teton Pass), so a trailer is out of the question for local stuff. It is being considered though for longer trips with 2 or more sleds instead of a sled deck.

The questions:

1) How long (or short) of a bed do you need?

2) I’ve seen it done, but what are the pros/cons to 2 sleds on a F150/1500. I’m reading it’s alright in some places in the USA and Canada, but others it’s not. I guess it depends on how the trooper/police officer adds up the weight of the sleds, gear and people? Has anyone had issues with this?

3) With any bed length (but primarily shorter 5.5 and 6.5 ft beds) can you let the sled sit on the tailgate? Should you build some sort of extension? I feel like a tailgate isn’t the greatest thing for a 400lb sled to sit on long term.

4) Will the standard suspension on most trucks be sufficient for 2 sleds, or should I/will I need to install stiffer shocks?

5) What does everyone do a out ski storage with a sled in the back of the truck? Roof box on top of the cab? Or just leave the skis on the sled ski rack?

6) What bed length, truck, set up do you guys recommend? What’s worked for you in the past? What hasn’t?

7) Anything I’m missing? Any other words of wisdom?

I was leaning towards a used 2013 to 2015 F150 Raptor, but the short 5.5ft bed scares me with the long track modern sleds. So that got me looking at F250s and Chevy/GMC 2500 with 6.5 to 8ft beds, but now my daily driver is a massive truck.

Thanks for any advice!

[anotherVTskibum]

Tl;Dr get a 3/4 or full ton if you want to put a sled deck on it.

You need to get a handle on the concept of payload, GVWR, and GAWR. In short, a stripped down half ton might have just enough capacity for two sleds and a light sled deck, but a heavier truck with all the fancy options won't. And even the stripped down truck is going to be damn close to those limits, which means you'll be getting worse handling and more wear and tear in the truck, plus if you end up in a jurisdiction that actual checks weight (most places in the US seem to ignore half tons unless they're obviously way overloaded), or if shit happens and the insurance people investigate, you're going to need to be very careful about what you carry beyond the sleds.

Just as a for instance, let's call each sled five hundred pounds with a full fuel load and cover on. Call the sled deck another five, although that will vary tremendously depending on construction. That's 1500 pounds, and a heavy F-150, and particularly the raptor, will be either at or over capacity at that point... before you and your passenger get into the cab, load up any ski gear, or put the extra fuel can in the back. A lighter F-150 may have enough headroom for a driver and passenger, but you'll still need to watch how much beer you pack and avoid heavy aftermarket options like bigger wheels and tires or, in particular, a winch bumper. If you got a 2015+ F-150 with the heavy duty payload package, which usually means 2k of payload or more, you could probably pull it off, but you're unlikely to find one used.

Especially if you plan to just have the sleds on the back all winter, I'd just get a 3/4 ton gas truck. If you want a diesel, think seriously about going full ton (the diesel engines are heavy as fuck and some 3/4 diesels don't have much more payload than a carefully equipped half ton). I don't know anyone who wouldn't like a little more capacity available, and if your planned use gets even close to the nominal limits on a regular basis, real world use will probably push you past them once you load up the beer and are hauling around fifty pounds of truck stuff (recovery rope, shovel, etc) that you probably want to have handy.

I've driven my F-150 a little overloaded without problems (and occasionally more than a little overloaded for short distances), but I wouldn't want to be hauling two sleds with it on a regular basis. Towing two is no problem, but you do have to then deal with the trailer, which as you noted is a no go on Teton Pass, and which is also another item to park and dig out each time it snows.

Don't worry about the track hanging over the tailgate, though; the amount of weight on the rear of the track should be minimal, and just if the weight so be in the bed even with a 6.5-foot bed. I've seen it done with a 5.5, but it looked sketch. YMMV.

[Foggy_Goggles]

What VT said. Don't pay more that $20K for a truck. You will beat on it. Get a long bed and either pull the tailgate on figure it is a disposable item.

Get ramps. Think about getting a headache rack for your truck. What is your sled experience? Picture this:

a. is is dark
b. the load up area is packed and icy
c. there are tons of on lookers
d. your 3" paddle mountain sled with powder skis is a total handful
e. you basically have to get a running start onto your ramps lined up bullseye, blip the throttle, then grab the brake.

This shit goes bad all time, you are basically jumping your sled into your pickup. Broken rear windows, sleds falling of ramps sideways, skis on the wrong side of the bed rails, ramps kicking out. It is all day everyday.

Its fun redneck shit but you are gambling with your health, safety and wallet. I ain't trying to talk you out of it, just being honest. If you tell me a new snowmobiler with a Raptor is gonna try to load into his pickup bed for the first time, I'm gonna crack a beer, hope I don't have to call 911 and bet against ya.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Just get something like this

https://wyoming.craigslist.org/ctd/d...739358861.html

Personal preference but 6.2 Farmers Only Reason to Drink gasser seem to do good. Besides the fact that I'd talk any body out of a Raptor unless they were rich and wanted an out of the box off road rig, own the Teton dirt bag MO.

I don't know your deal obviously but trucks get beat on purposefully. It is a tool. If your budget and storage situation allows it, consider the two vehicle system.

[GPP33]

VT has some good info. Regarding bed length, look at rear axle placement and center of mass of the sleds. You’ll want the center of mass of your payload directly over or a little in front of the rear axle. The further behind your rear axle it is the more it unloads your front axle which can affect alignment/tire wear and braking/handling, especially on snow and ice. I don’t think you’d like hauling two sleds and a sled deck with a 5.5’ bed but I’m sure plenty of people do it.

Don’t worry about having a long ass truck. I worried when I got mine and now I wish they had a 10’ bed. You get used to it

[GPP33]

Get a 4 door, you’ll want somewhere inside for all of your soft goods. But do get a gasser. A diesel will last longer and get better mpg but will still cost you a lot more in the long run and potentially give you starting issues on really cold days.

[toast2266]

Everything's been pretty well covered in here, but just to reiterate, as soon as you start wanting to carry large heavy things, you will be happy to have a bigger truck. 4 doors, long bed. It seems huge at first, but you get used to it. You don't live in new york city - parking isn't that big of a deal.

[adrenalated]

Good advice so far. I've seen lots of sleds in short bed trucks but it looks sketch AF. You won't hurt the tailgate, most of the weight is in the front of the sled, but the long bed is definitely the way to go. 2 sleds + sled deck is definitely 2500 territory

If you have the option it's usually better to back your truck up to a snowbank and drive the sled in on level ground without ramps, if possible, for the reasons Foggy mentioned. I'm surprised I don't see more people stuffing their sleds through their rear windows.

Buy high quality ramps, not cheap ones, they'll make loading much less sketchy. I personally trailer, but the truck bed folks I ride with all seem to love Bosski RevArc trifold ramps.

[skibrd]

Everyone’s (ski buddies, friends, anyone who knows how dumb of an idea a Raptor is) been trying to talk me out of a Raptor, but with out the logic you guys have presented. Thanks. I need some Teton dirtbag cred after moving out here with a BMW wagon, which instantly tossed me into thee negative lucky sperm stereotype. Not that I care what most people think about me. Ironically, the guys and girls on here who’ve met me know I actually have an interesting job/career. Working as a navigator on cargo ships pays pretty well, and I pick up off jobs during my vacations for extra cash, a free ski pass, and shit like that.

Sled experience is minimal. A few days goofing off with friends on their sleds last winter, but I’ve never put one up on a bed of a truck. Closest I’ve gotten is my roommates tilt trailer, and that was cake, but it’s also 18in off the ground.

I’ve got a pretty good idea about payload, GVWR and GAWR. The stability of a truck can’t be that different then stability of a cargo ship (I work on cargo ships), or at least the principles are similar enough.

Headache rack? Is that the rack to protect your rear window? I have seen a few broken rear windows and was going to look into one of them. Seems like a good investment. Do sled decks come with these attached?

Foggy_Goggles, yeah, I’ve been picturing that play by play a few times, hence why I’ve been researching this project for almost 2 years now. Figuring out the questions to ask, then figuring out how to ask them.

Thanks GPP33, I was thinking the short bed would work, but only if I could get the block of the sled in front of the rear axle. The thought of it slightly behind the rear axle just didn’t work in my head.

The gas v diesel argument is still up in the air. I think it’s going to come down to price and the realistic chance of running a power cord to the engine block, which isn’t realistic with how my place is set up.

I’ve been considering keeping my wagon, and getting a sub $10k truck, but with condo living, I don’t really have room for two vehicles. I wish I did, but we have 4 people in our place this winter, each has a car, and are allotted 3 parking spots. No ones said anything about the extra spot, but 2 extra would be pushing it.

4 door, 8ft bed truck, F250 (or Chevy/GMC 2500) or bigger. That’s simple enough. When this idea started in my head, my sled truck was GMC 2500, and now I’m back there again. First instincts are usually correct. I’m a big dude with long skis, and I was nervous about powder ski storage with a shorter bed.

Back to scouring the Internet for the perfect truck. Does the perfect truck exist?

[toast2266]

Also a thing to keep in mind: hauling a couple sleds is pretty easy; 2 sleds + deck + people / gear is probably 2000 lbs, which any decent 3/4 ton should be fine with. But once you have a full size truck, you're gonna start perusing the RV thread in the ski forum. And eventually you're probably going to want a camper. And if you want to put a camper in the bed of your truck, you'll probably want an 8' bed, 1 ton.

[skiing-in-jackson]

Its fun redneck shit but you are gambling with your health, safety and wallet.

Just like putting a horse in the trailer. It is exciting the first few times you do it, but after a while, you’re like: “Whew... I did it again without getting hurt or tearing something up.

[GPP33]

Also a thing to keep in mind: hauling a couple sleds is pretty easy; 2 sleds + deck + people / gear is probably 2000 lbs, which any decent 3/4 ton should be fine with. But once you have a full size truck, you're gonna start perusing the RV thread in the ski forum. And eventually you're probably going to want a camper. And if you want to put a camper in the bed of your truck, you'll probably want an 8' bed, 1 ton.

Truth!

[GPP33]

The gas v diesel argument is still up in the air. I think it’s going to come down to price and the realistic chance of running a power cord to the engine block, which isn’t realistic with how my place is set up.

I love my diesel and wouldn’t trade it for a gasser but if I was doing it all over again I don’t know that I would. The torque is great when I’m towing 10k up a mountain pass but I’m not sure the few minutes saved were worth the diesel premium. If cash isn’t a concern then they are a lot nicer to drive. Mine hasn’t left me stranded on a cold day yet but every time my truck has been sitting and I turn the key I say a little prayer.

[BCMtnHound]

I’ve been using my 1st gen xcab tacoma as my sled truck. It has extra leafs (could have gone with airbags), and a 74” bed. The wheelwells are too narrow for the summit, so I have a full length 3/4” plywood deck on a couple of 2X8. The space underneath holds the ramp, and room for a couple of skis and gear, although for the local secret spot turns, they just go right on the sled rack. As the deck distributes the weigh a bit, I keep the tailgate on. So a smaller truck is just fine with a bit of consideration. Loading even that low height is my greatest concern, and I carry an extra board to put against the rear window to stop a mild over-shoot with the skins. No headache rack but would like one. But ya, we have 3 passenger vehicles in the yard, so I have options.
For work, the sled deck goes on a 1tonne crewcab with a longbox. Some coworkers just don’t load their own sled, either by choice or directive. Some of the jacked up oil rig trucks with decks are insane in that regard. The SAR sleds are on trailers, one open and one enclosed. Much easier/safer to load and unload, but negotiating tight roads in poor conditions, and limited parking areas is the concern.

[east or bust]

the one thing i’ll say about diesels is they’re great until they aren’t, and when they aren’t you’re usually in a pretty bad spot.

case and point: last new years we had a cold snap up north to the tune of -30F-0F for a couple days. buddies F250 made it through the first 3 days, then as him and his GF were heading home he made it a few miles down the road and his filter clogged and left him stranded. luckily he still had cell service and was able to call for help. a couple more miles would have equaled a very long, very cold potentially deadly walk.

[GPP33]

the one thing i’ll say about diesels is they’re great until they aren’t, and when they aren’t you’re usually in a pretty bad spot.

case and point: last new years we had a cold snap up north to the tune of -30F-0F for a couple days. buddies F250 made it through the first 3 days, then as him and his GF were heading home he made it a few miles down the road and his filter clogged and left him stranded. luckily he still had cell service and was able to call for help. a couple more miles would have equaled a very long, very cold potentially deadly walk.

Yep, all it takes is some fuel that’s not as gell proof as it should be. Haven’t heard of one gelling up while running, it’s usually that they just won’t start. Carry an extra filter, appropriate wrenches and some diesel 911.

[skisurfmirth]

Looks like great advice from others above. I've been using an 87 F-250 6.9 diesel, standard cab, long box. I take off the stock tailgate and replace it with a custom steel frame one for sled season. I always put fuel conditioner in every fill up to avoid the gelling scenario described above and generally help the old 6.9 out a little. Have folding ramps that work well enough, but the sled deck ramp storage looks easier. Has worked great for me the past few years. I live in Golden B.C. and it does get cold. So far no problems starting after leaving the truck for a few days on hut trips. Good luck!

[Judo Chop!]

+1 to everything above.

my additional $0.02...

- reinforce your tailgate if you do'nt get a deck. it's easy. I used some painted angle-iron with some self-drilling screws right at the top lip. This year I will switch it our for aluminum. I'll get some pics when I re-install.

- get the longest ramp you can. tie it down when loading/unloading.

- traction for treds and glides for skis.

- wear your helmet loading/unloading.

- good tires matter.

edited: - Raptors are for douchebags.

[skibrd]

I’ll build a platform if I don’t swing for a sled deck this year. I don’t like the idea of the sled sitting on the tailgate, and the platform will provide some storage for skis, ramp and gear.

Good tires always matter. My wagons always had better snow tires then summer tires.