G3 Zed Heel Turret Failure

**1000-oaks** · 11-19-2018, 11:54 AM

Haven't seen the underside of the Zed heel, but entire spring-loaded travel mechanism should be within the tower, and these track marks are just to show the acceptable BSL adjustment range.

**Spyderjon** · 11-19-2018, 12:11 PM

I've only mounted one pair of Zeds but I had a good play with them at the time. The heel length should be set to just kiss the back of the boot so it is truly gap-less. However you can't shorten the length more than approx a mm otherwise the boot won't click in - so this is not a set-up issue. To have both heels go simultaneously looks like a material failure to me. Another possibility is that the forward pressure springs failed but you'll need to remove the heel bases from the ski to check those.

**toast2266** · 11-19-2018, 12:11 PM

No experience with the Zeds, but if the binding was set up so that the forward pressure was incorrect in the forward direction (meaning the heel was too far forward, so the turret had less travel available), wouldn't that make stepping in really difficult? The binding is gapless, so if the heel was adjusted incorrectly / too far forward, the boot would just hit the top of the turret, correct? It'd take some sort of monkey fuckery to get the boot into the binding.

Edit: looks like Spyderjon just confirmed.

**adrenalated** · 11-19-2018, 12:15 PM

Sucks that happened. I'm going to suggest sticking with G3 though, and asking them to replace the Zeds with a pair of Ion LTs, and here's my reasons:
1) by switching to a different brand/asking for store credit, you're asking the shop to try to get a refund from G3, which can be challenging for the shop. Getting the brand to exchange for a different product is a lot easier (so they can probably get you back rolling much faster and with less hassle).
2) Ion LTs are a proven product with no major issues (that I'm aware of)
3) you can reuse the mounting holes already in your skis instead of re-drilling.

**galibier_numero_un** · 11-19-2018, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by adrenalated

Sucks that happened. I'm going to suggest sticking with G3 though, and asking them to replace the Zeds with a pair of Ion LTs, and here's my reasons:
1) by switching to a different brand/asking for store credit, you're asking the shop to try to get a refund from G3, which can be challenging for the shop. Getting the brand to exchange for a different product is a lot easier (so they can probably get you back rolling much faster and with less hassle).
2) Ion LTs are a proven product with no major issues (that I'm aware of)
3) you can reuse the mounting holes already in your skis instead of re-drilling.

I like this line of thinking. G3 has proven responsive in the past, and released a solid 1st year design in the Ion, which has been on the market for several years

I also expect that this was a batch problem, rather than a materials specification/design problem (for reasons 1000 oaks stated), so I'd stay away from the Zed for this session, but you knew that part.

... Thom

**margotron** · 11-19-2018, 12:45 PM

Someone drop this on G3 insta

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**hafjell** · 11-19-2018, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by swissiphic

Hafjell; if you push the remaining turret pieces back to test the travel, is there any weird friction or binding that might have prevented smooth rearward travel that might have contributed to some weird stress loading scenario?

With the tails of the ski on the ground, I can push the turret back towards the ground without any friction. It takes a lot of pressure and doesn't travel far, but there's no hitch.

**hafjell** · 11-19-2018, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Spyderjon

I've only mounted one pair of Zeds but I had a good play with them at the time. The heel length should be set to just kiss the back of the boot so it is truly gap-less. However you can't shorten the length more than approx a mm otherwise the boot won't click in - so this is not a set-up issue. To have both heels go simultaneously looks like a material failure to me. Another possibility is that the forward pressure springs failed but you'll need to remove the heel bases from the ski to check those.

Thanks, Spyder and Toast.

**hafjell** · 11-19-2018, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by adrenalated

Sucks that happened. I'm going to suggest sticking with G3 though, and asking them to replace the Zeds with a pair of Ion LTs, and here's my reasons:
1) by switching to a different brand/asking for store credit, you're asking the shop to try to get a refund from G3, which can be challenging for the shop. Getting the brand to exchange for a different product is a lot easier (so they can probably get you back rolling much faster and with less hassle).
2) Ion LTs are a proven product with no major issues (that I'm aware of)
3) you can reuse the mounting holes already in your skis instead of re-drilling.

Thanks, Adrenalated and Galibier, for the strategy. Should I ask to keep the Zed toes on the skis, shelve the Ion toes for a rainy day and have them mount just the Ion heels? Any reason to avoid the frankenbinding of Zed toe and Ion LT heel?

**adrenalated** · 11-19-2018, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by hafjell

Thanks, Adrenalated and Galibier, for the strategy. Should I ask to keep the Zed toes on the skis, shelve the Ion toes for a rainy day and have them mount just the Ion heels? Any reason to avoid the frankenbinding of Zed toe and Ion LT heel?

Most likely you're going to have to give the Zeds back, complete. You don't generally get to keep the still usable parts when you exchange out a product.

**mall walker** · 11-19-2018, 12:59 PM

^ if for some reason you can keep the old toes, or for those curious in general, there's only 1.5mm height difference between the Ion/Zed toes, so I would assume it would be fine to ski with Zed toes / Ion heels.

**SumJongGuy** · 11-19-2018, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by BC.

Thank you for posting. I know we were all very interested about it last night.

Again, at least you were not injured. I am sure this will all be taken care of by you shop. I personally would ask for store credit and go with a different company/set up. Lots of good choices, with a double failure like that....go in a different direction.

Store credit for both the skis and bindings.. OP shouldn't have to ski on extra holes for the decision to go with a different binding after this disaster..

**kid-kapow** · 11-19-2018, 02:21 PM

oh my.

Good thing it happened without you tomahawking down an entire hillside.

Pity that plastic equals less than fantastic notion apparently was proven so swiftly

I would be pretty gutted if I worked at G3 and this happened right off the bat for what seemed/seems like a very thought out product that had/has a ton of potential.

Thanks for sharing!

Btw - are those mantra v-werks?

**SumJongGuy** · 11-19-2018, 02:21 PM

Maybe Charles De Mar skied across them?

**Dromond** · 11-19-2018, 02:24 PM

As others have suggested, seem like this must be a quality control problem. Wouldn't there need to be extensive testing for this type of impact during the development of any such binding? Still, QC problems can kill a product if customers lose confidence...

**cmcrawfo** · 11-19-2018, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by hafjell

Beautiful day for a walk down a mountain with skis strapped to your pack.

I am disappointed in your lack of ingenuity / balls.

Your toe piece wasn’t broken. You could have tele’ed out.

**PowderWindWaves** · 11-19-2018, 04:54 PM

Hey. I work at G3. Something is not right about your binding breakage. The ZED binding comes with a SKI BRAKE or STOMP PAD (in lieu of ski brake to support boot). Your pictures do not show a ski break or stomp pad. Was either of them installed? If not, I think that may be the root cause of your binding breakage; although we have a bunch of questions for you. Give us a call and we can discuss next steps for your warranty. We're happy to work with you or your shop, no problem but often its quicker through the shop. Bummer breakage.

**jdadour** · 11-19-2018, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by PowderWindWaves

Hey. I work at G3. Something is not right about your binding breakage. The ZED binding comes with a SKI BRAKE or STOMP PAD (in lieu of ski brake to support boot). Your pictures do not show a ski break or stomp pad. Was either of them installed? If not, I think that may be the root cause of your binding breakage; although we have a bunch of questions for you. Give us a call and we can discuss next steps for your warranty. We're happy to work with you or your shop, no problem but often its quicker through the shop. Bummer breakage.

That makes a ton of sense. Thanks for chiming in G3! Many of us have these bindings and are looking forward to figuring out how this gets resolved.

**hafjell** · 11-19-2018, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by PowderWindWaves

Hey. I work at G3. Something is not right about your binding breakage. The ZED binding comes with a SKI BRAKE or STOMP PAD (in lieu of ski brake to support boot). Your pictures do not show a ski break or stomp pad. Was either of them installed? If not, I think that may be the root cause of your binding breakage; although we have a bunch of questions for you. Give us a call and we can discuss next steps for your warranty. We're happy to work with you or your shop, no problem but often its quicker through the shop. Bummer breakage.

Thanks. M in contact with the shop. Think the stomp pad was correctly installed but shattered in the wreck. How do I investigate further?

**hafjell** · 11-19-2018, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by cmcrawfo

I am disappointed in your lack of ingenuity / balls.

Your toe piece wasn’t broken. You could have tele’ed out.

Ha! I considered it and wimped out. Didn’t want to put too much pressure on the toe pieces. Got to an easy, compacted hiking trail within 600 yards of the accident so took the long way home.

**doebedoe** · 11-19-2018, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by PowderWindWaves

Hey. I work at G3. Something is not right about your binding breakage. The ZED binding comes with a SKI BRAKE or STOMP PAD (in lieu of ski brake to support boot). Your pictures do not show a ski break or stomp pad. Was either of them installed? If not, I think that may be the root cause of your binding breakage; although we have a bunch of questions for you. Give us a call and we can discuss next steps for your warranty. We're happy to work with you or your shop, no problem but often its quicker through the shop. Bummer breakage.

Love the response, and that you guys put out such good vids. You may want to add some floating text or something to your Zed mounting video to say mention the need for a stomp pad if you're going brakeless. Stomp pad isn't mentioned in the video: https://www.genuineguidegear.com/lif...ounting-201819

**jdadour** · 11-19-2018, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by doebedoe

Love the response, and that you guys put out such good vids. You may want to add some floating text or something to your Zed mounting video to say mention the need for a stomp pad if you're going brakeless. Stomp pad isn't mentioned in the video: https://www.genuineguidegear.com/lif...ounting-201819

All of the brakeless images of the binding on the internet dont include the stomp pad either. That might want to be remedied as well

**cravenmorhead** · 11-19-2018, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by SumJongGuy

Store credit for both the skis and bindings.. OP shouldn't have to ski on extra holes for the decision to go with a different binding after this disaster..

I thought Ions and Zeds use the same pattern.

Hopefully this traces back to a huge mounting mistake... somehow. If not, if minor mounting problem = no obvious problems on carpet tests and skinning but catastrophic double failure once skiing, it seems like a bad combo.

**SumJongGuy** · 11-19-2018, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by jdadour

All of the brakeless images of the binding on the internet dont include the stomp pad either. That might want to be remedied as well

I'm still pretty shocked at the way those carbon/nylon/composite parts shattered even if a brake or pad was missing. I'd like to think my bindings are built strong enough to where they'll pull out of the ski before shattering to bits like that under any circumstances. It's not like it was super mega cold either. Those things blew apart like 40 year old Salamon 626 heels on a sub zero day.