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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    Thanks for the honesty. TGR gets a bad rap especially on TGR but I’ve been impressed with the number of engineers who have stepped forward to ask clarifying questions, point out inconsistencies on both sides and provide knowledgeable comment. Good luck.
    Absolutely! If you can read through the crap and the tinfoil hats there is a lot of good information here. If you dont mind me asking and will excuse my laziness in not searching back through the last pages what direction are you going with your tour bindings?
    Samuel L. Jackson as Jules Winnfield: Oh, I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration?

  2. #302
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    Considered these. Bought Alpinist largely because I think the G3 answer is bullshit. I think they knew they had a problem. Alpinist will probably explode and I will die.

  3. #303
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    The title is " Heel turret Failure " but from the picts it looks like it was just the heelpiece that failed

    NOT the Turret

    All the binding mfgers have made heel pieces from plastic for ever, so I think these were just new defective not something design related and no other failure reports have surfaced

    I DO wonder why G3 are coming up with the BS excuse, possibly damage control for an overly dramatic situation

    I AM still waiting to see the screws break and the binding tops peel off

    I still have 2 pair of Verticals which I am sticking with
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  4. #304
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    There isn’t a touring binding on the market that I haven’t skied and broken. I’m usually worse case scenario. 215lbs of beer drinking fat with a pack filled with another 50lbs of leaded glass. When tech binding originally came to market they where really designed more as approach bindings for mountaineers. Not for the likes of us to get rad on skiing inbounds with big burly boots.

    So I personally think the idea of using the brakes or a heal spacer to transfer some impact loads directly into the ski and away from the heel torrent makes a lot of sense. In fact I’ve broken numerous dynafit heel pieces do to impact loads on the heel. Usually you will notice fore aft play in the heel piece before they fail catastrophically. In fact I just broke another dynafit heel this week when I impacted a rock during an avy but that’s another story.

    For what it’s worth I have zero affiliation with any binding company other then getting a pro deal but am running multiple pairs of the zeds this year after having good luck last year with the ions and because I can get a better price on g3 binders then other brands.

    No at binding is perfect. Some are better at certain things. So best to choose one that best fits your specific needs.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by teleee View Post
    Absolutely! If you can read through the crap and the tinfoil hats there is a lot of good information here. If you dont mind me asking and will excuse my laziness in not searching back through the last pages what direction are you going with your tour bindings?
    Ion LTs. So far, so good. Pretty chattery conditions yesterday and they held fine for 1,700'. Right around 20 MPH (actually 34 MPH) at top speed so not exactly mach-ing them yet. Pushing them a little more each trip. (JC, they tour like a dream.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunder View Post
    So I personally think the idea of using the brakes or a heal spacer to transfer some impact loads directly into the ski and away from the heel torrent makes a lot of sense.
    So you buy the stomp pad theory? Interesting. I wish one was installed on one of the skis. No A-B testing makes it hard to say.
    Last edited by hafjell; 12-17-2018 at 08:47 AM. Reason: Infermational Incorrectedness

  6. #306
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    How do you guys even have time to go skiing?

    Why you would buy a first year binding is beyond me. IONs just work. Ya'll will keep fuckin' that chicken, buying beta shit, that acting the the Space Shuttle just blew up.

    Like it or not, G3 has a business to run. They gonna spin it however they want to spin it.
    The outdoor industry simultaneously laughs at and it scared by you.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    How do you guys even have time to go skiing?

    Why you would buy a first year binding is beyond me. IONs just work. Ya'll will keep fuckin' that chicken, buying beta shit, that acting the the Space Shuttle just blew up.

    Like it or not, G3 has a business to run. They gonna spin it however they want to spin it.
    The outdoor industry simultaneously laughs at and it scared by you.
    Good point, FG. Both bindings explode five minutes into first descent. Asking questions about how and why is stupid. Just hike out, stfu, and buy something else.
    I do agree with you that buying first year bindings is dumb. I am paying the stupid tax.

  8. #308
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    A good example of BS internet spin

    ya got 13 pages on what was an obvious new defective heel piece which spawns a service bulletin that half the engineers who write it don't believe

    VS

    the SHIFT situation where blown up AT heelpieces do not even take up a page, Cody Townsend just packs his truck and blows town


    I have the time because in all the time i been posting on this forum I haven't had a job so I just ski and posting bulshit about skiing
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    Why you would buy a first year binding is beyond me. IONs just work.
    There should be a thread with tiers of trust for tech bindings. Something like:

    Trusted (Speed Turns, etc.)
    Trusted with caveats (Tectons that dent boots, bindings that are prone to icing or autorotation or lifters that fail)
    Not trusted because new (every new binding)
    Not trusted because they beak. (Kingpins toes, Radical 1.0 heels, especially the early ones)

  10. #310
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    Wait, shifts blow up also? I'm just TGRing while I get some invoices out and I feel like I am so out of the loop. What else?

    a. first year bindings blow up x2
    b. there is no standardization of standards
    c. people still buy BD stuff even though McClean is a tool and there shit has generally been questionable for a while

    Next your are going to tell me that Eldora sucks, snowmobiles require skills & maintenance, and touring in the Wasatch has gotten to busy if you want to do it in the day time.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by teleee View Post
    Thanks for repeating the same thing I could read over and over again in the last 12 pages of conspiracy.
    What’s the conspiracy? That G3’s answer is bullshit? Or that the engineer(s) quite clearly said they shouldn’t have failed?

    I’m not sure why you’re proclaiming this to be a conspiracy, self reassurance that your bindings don’t explode too?


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    I'd like to see testimonials from anyone who bought Zens AFTER reading this thread instead of trying to defend the purchase they made BEFORE it came to night that some are failing in the field catastrophically.
    better yet, i'm still waiting to read the testimonials from the professional guides who have put 100s of day on the ZED

    from post #91
    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    Don't think the engineer was implying anything beyond the shop should have installed the stomp pad if they didn't install brakes. It's not an elective part of the binding.
    Somebody else above said that even without the stomp pad the catastrophic failure is confusing. The engineer would agree with that. He said simply, we have guides skiing 100 days on them who weigh as much as you do, and carry heavier packs, and are airing bigger jumps than you. So he's asked me to ship the bindings back directly to QC at G3.
    style matters...

  13. #313
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    I know a guide who broke 6 RAD1

    is an early adopter of ZED

    so I am waiting to see how that explodes

    er I mean unfolds

    BUT as of yet we are not hearing of wholesale ZED failures

    just a very dramatic sample size of 1
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  14. #314
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    had a zed installed by a shop that had extra pieces left over and said ‘fuckit’.
    j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post

    So you buy the stomp pad theory? Interesting.
    I do. Wont be the first nor the last time the engineering department and marketing / communications team at a ski brand wasn't on the same page. In fact I cant think of a single time I have been asked to do a hard goods shoot where all of the sample products where 100% accurate and complete.

    If you think about it, Alpine bindings tend to be very strong in impact scenarios... In fact I cant think of anytime I have seen an alpine heel piece exploded due to impact. Thats because the majority of the forces are transferred directly into the ski. Since the majority of tech bindings I have broken over the years have failed in the heel piece / pedestal it only seems logical to me that a system to transfer those forces into the ski verses heel pedestal isa good idea.

    On another matter I really see ZERO reason to ever run a binding without brakes. If the weight difference makes that much a deal to you, then A. Drink Less beer, B. Get in Shape, or C. harden the F#9K up. The entire industry transitioned away from ski leashes due to the high number of injuries they have caused, and let's face it. I have also lost track of how many weight weenies have lost a ski on top of a peak because it didn't have brakes.
    Last edited by Gunder; 12-17-2018 at 04:15 PM.

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    So you buy the stomp pad theory? Interesting. I wish one was installed on one of the skis. No A-B testing makes it hard to say.
    I do too, why would you want the heel totally unsupported under the boot, it makes sense to limit the amount of stress that is put in the binding upon a hard impact. transferring that into the ski seems like common sense to me. I am in complete agreement with Gunder regarding brakes (the 5 stitches over my eye back in the day confirms the danger of leashes!)

    I have also not heard of any other similar failures besides the OP's, so I am fairly confident that the chances of my Zed exploding are fairly small. Should I have waited for a year before diving into a new binding? Probably, but I will probably not buy another binding for 5 years, and I like the concept and had a long conversation with one of the beta testers who sold me on it.
    If they fail spectacularly I will be the first to admit I screwed up!
    Samuel L. Jackson as Jules Winnfield: Oh, I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration?

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunder View Post
    I do. Wont be the first nor the last time the engineering department and marketing / communications team at a ski brand wasn't on the same page. In fact I cant think of a single time I have been asked to do a hards good shoot where all of the sample products where 100% accurate and complete.

    If you think about it, Alpine bindings tend to be very strong in impact scenarios... In fact I cant think of anytime I have seen an alpine heel piece exploded due to impact. Thats because the majority of the forces are transferred directly into the ski. Since the majority of tech bindings I have broken over the years have failed in the hell piece / torrent it only makes sense to me that system to transfer those forces into the ski verses heel pedestal makes a lot of sense to me.

    On another matter I really see ZERO reason to ever run a binding without brakes. If the weight difference makes that much a deal to you, then A. Drink Less beer, B. Get in Shape, or C. harden the F#9K up. The entire industry transitioned away from ski leashes due to the high number of injuries they have caused, and let's face it. I have also lost track of how many weight weenies have lost a ski on top of a peak because it didn't have brakes.
    Interesting. Brakes and stomp pads ftw, I guess. Thanks for weighing in.

    To play devil's advocate, there are people who drink less beer, are in shape and are tough who are still counting grams, because, if applied to the entire system (clothes, pack, and equipment) it can make a huge difference.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    To play devil's advocate, there are people who drink less beer, are in shape and are tough who are still counting grams, because, if applied to the entire system (clothes, pack, and equipment) it can make a huge difference.
    And of everyone of those I know of at least two ski bums that will tour faster, farther and have more fun while beating the weight weeines to the top and chances are they will chug a beer and blow the smoke from they're joint in they're face on the way past....either way my point is people get way to caught up over a few grams that in all reality make ZERO difference at the end of the day.

  19. #319
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    Meh. I use brakes. And I don't. Sometimes brakes are pretty much useless and leashes offer more security. Other times leashes are a pain or having a loose ski attached to you needs to be avoided.

    Sent from my Pixel using TGR Forums mobile app

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by teleee View Post
    I do too, why would you want the heel totally unsupported under the boot, it makes sense to limit the amount of stress that is put in the binding upon a hard impact. transferring that into the ski seems like common sense to me. I am in complete agreement with Gunder regarding brakes (the 5 stitches over my eye back in the day confirms the danger of leashes!)
    Me three on both points. For whatever that’s worth.

  21. #321
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    "Day 1, Run 1" is what made this damage case juicy for me.

    That, plus I get curious whenever big guys choose lightweight plasticky bindings (OP is 6'5" 200, Gunder is 215 + 50 lb pack, etc).

    From the Blister Podcast with G3 ZED Engineering Team, on the topic of ZED vs. Ion:
    “…The Ion is a little bit overbuilt, and for some customers, that’s a really good thing. …So for those users who like to be on really big skis, and ski super-hard in and out of bounds, we’d still recommend the Ion to them. ...Definitely if you’re ever into, like, the 108 plus [width of ski underfoot], you want to think twice about what you have connecting you to your ski, force wise.”
    - Cam Shute (G3 director of product)

    In that podcast, G3 also says the ZED has shorter lifespan than Ion, but also they seem to genuinely believe that ZED can still survive adequately high peak loads.

    Quote Originally Posted by hafjell View Post
    Völkl BMTs. Too light weight for pin tech bindings if I’m 200 lbs?
    I don't know about the weight effect, but I do think carbon construction can have higher transmission of impact energy to the binding etc. Probably not a big factor in this case of damage, but it's another layer on the stack of multiple factors that might add up together.

    .
    - TRADE your heavy PROTESTS for my lightweight version at this thread

    "My biggest goal in life has always been to pursue passion and to make dreams a reality. I love my daughter, but if I had to quit my passions for her, then I would be setting the wrong example for her, and I would not be myself anymore. " -Shane

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  22. #322
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    OP, could you offer a little more detail on this half-foot hop to (not quite?) clear a water bar? Did the failure occur in close proximity to that? Did you case the landing a bit, maybe come in with the water bar around about the boot center? Work a bit to get momentum to carry you over it?

    I licked my thumb and held it aloft, but I seem to be short on data, anyway. TIA!

  23. #323
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    I'm guessing it's just that the Zed's aren't waterproof.
    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    the situation strikes me as WAY too much drama at this point

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitamin I View Post
    "Day 1, Run 1" is what made this damage case juicy for me.

    That, plus I get curious whenever big guys choose lightweight plasticky bindings (OP is 6'5" 200, Gunder is 215 + 50 lb pack, etc).

    From the Blister Podcast with G3 ZED Engineering Team, on the topic of ZED vs. Ion:
    “…The Ion is a little bit overbuilt, and for some customers, that’s a really good thing. …So for those users who like to be on really big skis, and ski super-hard in and out of bounds, we’d still recommend the Ion to them. ...Definitely if you’re ever into, like, the 108 plus [width of ski underfoot], you want to think twice about what you have connecting you to your ski, force wise.”
    - Cam Shute (G3 director of product)

    In that podcast, G3 also says the ZED has shorter lifespan than Ion, but also they seem to genuinely believe that ZED can still survive adequately high peak loads.



    I don't know about the weight effect, but I do think carbon construction can have higher transmission of impact energy to the binding etc. Probably not a big factor in this case of damage, but it's another layer on the stack of multiple factors that might add up together.

    .
    Awesome. Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    OP, could you offer a little more detail on this half-foot hop to (not quite?) clear a water bar? Did the failure occur in close proximity to that? Did you case the landing a bit, maybe come in with the water bar around about the boot center? Work a bit to get momentum to carry you over it?
    I've thought about this. But for a number of reasons, I seriously doubt the vertical water bar played any role. If by "casing" you mean to hit the water bar instead of clearing it, no. Landing a bunny hop is a pretty distinct feeling that couldn't be confused with ramming into a bar. When I stopped sliding, my first thought was the DIN was too low and I just released. I told myself on the walk out that they weren't capable of handling a tny landing on pretty flat terrain. Now, after all the engineers have weighed in, I don't know. Lots of folks here, and through PM, and in real life have said "bad batch of plastic. As for working to get momentum, no. It was a pretty fluid fall.

    G3 says they have lots of heavy dudes skiing them faster than 14.5 MPH and landing much biggers airs. I believe them but note that is on last year's pre-production versions. Whether this year's run of plastic holds as well remains to be seen. Since we haven't heard of any other failures, my case seems to be exceptional.

    Interestingly, in conversations with G3, their expectation was the binding should have held together at that speed under any circumstances: running into a wall without the stomp pad. Who knows?

  25. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vitamin I View Post
    "Day 1, Run 1" is what made this damage case juicy for me.

    That, plus I get curious whenever big guys choose lightweight plasticky bindings (OP is 6'5" 200, Gunder is 215 + 50 lb pack, etc).

    From the Blister Podcast with G3 ZED Engineering Team, on the topic of ZED vs. Ion:
    “…The Ion is a little bit overbuilt, and for some customers, that’s a really good thing. …So for those users who like to be on really big skis, and ski super-hard in and out of bounds, we’d still recommend the Ion to them. ...Definitely if you’re ever into, like, the 108 plus [width of ski underfoot], you want to think twice about what you have connecting you to your ski, force wise.”
    - Cam Shute (G3 director of product)

    In that podcast, G3 also says the ZED has shorter lifespan than Ion, but also they seem to genuinely believe that ZED can still survive adequately high peak loads.



    I don't know about the weight effect, but I do think carbon construction can have higher transmission of impact energy to the binding etc. Probably not a big factor in this case of damage, but it's another layer on the stack of multiple factors that might add up together.

    .
    I’ve been using Ion LTs for several years now, without issue. I was thinking about changing to Zed’s, assuming similar functionality and durability, to add the convenience of ski brakes while still saving a little weight, and for the longer mounting track (so I could run both my heavy and light touring boots, which have different sole lengths). Am sticking with the Ion LTs for now.

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