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  1. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    I used to work for a civil engineer who claimed " In uni the engineers would sit around drinking beer and giggling while discussing the square root of PI "
    All the civil engineers did at my Uni was practice surveying...

  2. #352
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    Nov 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by md8005 View Post
    I am a mechanical engineer by training and.... I can say conclusively that it had nothing to do with the skiing conditions....
    Does not compute. Lots of engineers in this thread. Many bits of truth in the m-series JONG post. But this certainty is laughable: no material failure happens without having a whole lot to do with the loads applied. Doesn't mean those loads were outside the intended parameters. But things don't break sitting on the shelf.

  3. #353
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    Apr 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    Does not compute. Lots of engineers in this thread. Many bits of truth in the m-series JONG post. But this certainty is laughable: no material failure happens without having a whole lot to do with the loads applied. Doesn't mean those loads were outside the intended parameters. But things don't break sitting on the shelf.
    You can try to take a statement completely out of context and it wont make any sense. In context it is correct and justifiable. You're just a JONG when it comes to critical thought it seems.

    I'd set my username if you could access any of the user pages on this broken ass website.

  4. #354
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    Looks like you're in a hole there, buddy. How about a bigger shovel? Or maybe dial back on the overconfidence a touch; some of us practicing engineer types would appreciate it. Being conclusive despite incomplete data and coupling that with an appeal to (your own) authority does no service to your credibility. You got a lot of things right in that post. Now demonstrate your expansive abilities by figuring out how to change your name.

  5. #355
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    Mar 2012
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    Perhaps we need a translator?
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  6. #356
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by md8005 View Post
    I stumbled on this thread after ordering G3 ZED 12 bindings, but not before using (they actually haven't shipped to me yet) If it turns out there's an issue here I can always exchange them for some ION's or return them, so I don't really have a horse in this race.

    I am a mechanical engineer by training and saw a lot of very perplexing posts by the users in this thread. People who appear to have zero engineering knowledge at all claiming "I don't believe the stomp pad issue" and lots of people saying that this must be a design flaw that G3 was covering up or lying about.

    A few things:


    1. This binding failed on cycle <100 of use. Fatigue is life is measured on a logarithmic scale, meaning 10 -> 100 -> 1,000 -> 10,000 -> 100,000 -> 1,000,000 etc. For the binding to fail in the <100 cycle range (you might even say cycle 1 based on the story) we can instantly rule out fatigue/wear contributing to the failure, even wear potentially generated by the skin up.
    2. The nature of the failure is reproduced in one person, 2 bindings, both at the same time. Obviously this indicates some kind of flaw in these 2 bindings that was present prior to use. I can say conclusively that it had nothing to do with the skiing conditions, the moves made, the speed of skiing, anything like that.
    3. Based on point 2 we can also conclude that IF this were a design flaw (the physical shape and dimensions of the binding) it would be happening to literally every skiier who rode those binding hard. There wouldn't be 1 failure of a set, there would be dozens. As much as the non engineers would love to point and yell "design flaw!!!" while smugly holding their bindings of some other brand, that would be highly incorrect.
    4. This is restating the obvious, but the flaw here is clearly in the material. We can draw that conclusion based on 2 things, lots of people skiing these bindings without this issue, and both bindings breaking in the exact same way.
    5. So what do we do about potentially flawed material causing a catastrophic fracture in a N of 1 situation? we wait and watch. We need to study the other failures that happen and look for a pattern. The manufacturing lot numbers and analysis by G3 will make them more than capable of analyzing the situation accurately. We don't see their internal processes but its likely they have already reproduced and analyzed this failure if they have other bindings in their possession with this material flaw.


    I also want to point out that I think many are totally misconstruing the stomp pad fix that G3 put out in response to this failure. A few more points:


    1. Typically when a single failure occurs, no fix is issued. It's potentially incredibly costly and totally un-necessary. A single failure in un-controlled conditions does not inherently warrant a response.
    2. To G3's Credit, they were able to figure out a solution to greatly mitigate the potential failure by implementing a low weight, low cost, added piece with literally no downsides to regular binding use.
    3. The stomp pad seems to be misunderstood by some posters criticizing it (a lot of you do seem to understand though. The point of the stomp pad isn't to contact the boot or interact during skiing at all. The point of the stomp pad is to limit the displacement of the heel if it were to flex like it did in this failure case. Of course you probably need a flawed/damaged/ worn out binding in the first place to even see this displacement scenario. The point of the stomp pad is to turn a worst-case-scenario where the binding cleaves in half into a worst-case-scenario where it cracks, doesn't break off all the way and severity of the failure is reduced. Keep in mind this failure is highly unlikely to happen in the first place.


    To wrap up this post I want to ask has anyone seen this failure or a failure with their ZED 12 since this incident?

    And no, I don't work for G3 or even in the ski industry, just a fellow enthusiast.
    I don't know what everyone's beef is with this fellow, save his low post count. Some folks lurk forever and get a login only when they have something compelling to say. Maybe I'm naive.

    I'm not gonna claim zero design flaws on the ZED, but his take on material flaw (bad batch) makes sense to me. As far as adding the stomp pad is concerned, if this mitigates a possible 4-sigma failure, is that something to complain about? I guess we should beat up on ATK and Plum as well for doing this.

    Contrast this with Kingpin failures where it appears as if Marker found more ways to screw up than get it right (design, manufacturing process, and material failure).

    ... Thom
    Last edited by galibier_numero_un; 04-24-2019 at 05:03 PM.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  7. #357
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    Mar 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by md8005 View Post
    To wrap up this post I want to ask has anyone seen this failure ?

    And no, I don't work for G3.
    You mean like, the pictures on the first page of the thread?

  8. #358
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    Zactly ^^ and check the time lines on how FAST G3 mitigated the situ of ONE failure by issuing a stomp pad fix for what was not reallly a design issue maybe just some mis-cast plastic cuz when brand new product breakage got sprayed all over the webz before it got to the warranty dept, G3 had to apply some marketing genius but really the stomp pad thing is bogus
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  9. #359
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    Dec 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by t-the-east View Post
    You mean like, the pictures on the first page of the thread?
    He said "since this incident" which I take to mean his referencing the first post of this thread.

    Snowpack is getting thin and people are already have their Summer snark on.
    Galibier Design
    crafting technology in service of music

  10. #360
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    I'm onboard that the stomp pad should reduce peak stress in a lot of situations and therefore make a lot of forms of failure less likely or puts them off for longer. (Fatigue explanation was pretty spot on.) What's funny about the m-JONG post is that the non-engineers commenting on what BS that is are already obvious, so calling out his credentials was kind of funny.

  11. #361
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    Oct 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    I'm onboard that the stomp pad should reduce peak stress in a lot of situations and therefore make a lot of forms of failure less likely or puts them off for longer. (Fatigue explanation was pretty spot on.) What's funny about the m-JONG post is that the non-engineers commenting on what BS that is are already obvious, so calling out his credentials was kind of funny.
    Ha, I thought the same thing. I am pretty sure I said the same thing although not so eloquently as he did several pages back. And yea, I am a structural engineer. It seems such an obvious material failure in a small sample size. The stomp pad seems like a very obvious insurance policy to over stressing a potential material irregularity. I am not sure why all the dentists on here are so quick to jump on calling out his credentials. I guess just because it doesn't work with the conspiracy theorists that G# is out to kill us all. I knew those Canadians couldn't be trusted!
    Samuel L. Jackson as Jules Winnfield: Oh, I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration?

  12. #362
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
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    3
    Finally some rational people... maybe I will keep posting here. I was beginning to think this board was really just full of trolls.

    Update: G3 cancelled my order as they have no stock left of this binding. I will be buying either the updated version of this of the updated '20 ATK FR14. We will see what the fall brings...

  13. #363
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    Nov 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by md8005 View Post
    Finally some rational people... maybe I will keep posting here. I was beginning to think this board was really just full of trolls.

    oh yeah this bodes well

  14. #364
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    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    Another way to look at the failure is that tech boots have been successfully suspended between 4 pins since the last century, ergo If the g3 ZED binding couldn't do it without heel support there must be have been something wrong with the ZED design, but of course all 15 pages were just pure bullshit and there never was anything to see here
    Last edited by XXX-er; 04-25-2019 at 09:11 AM.
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

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