G3 Zed Heel Turret Failure

[Meadow Skipper]

...They are thinking the stomp pad was not installed. I sent a photo of the carpet test the night before and that seemed conclusive.

Well then...

[east or bust]

I have more bro cred.

isn’t this guy the one who posted a pic of his nut sack on here? if so i’d say the above statement would be difficult to overrule

[swissiphic]

Wondering from an engineering standpoint how the stomp pad would contribute to heel turret integrity? Checking out the wildsnow report on the Zed, it states and shows in pics that the the ski boot heel remains suspended in free air above the stomp pad by either the pins in dh mode or the antiautorotate tab in touring mode. I just kinda assumed its function was more for some kind of anti snow buildup shield/guard for the antiautorotate component.

[doebedoe]

After a 30 minute call with the engineer at G3 last night, I awoke to find an email detailing next steps. Return, replacement or swap is still up to me.
They are thinking the stomp pad was not installed. I sent a photo of the carpet test the night before and that seemed conclusive.


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By conclusive you mean that the stomp pad was not installed, correct?

[doebedoe]

Wondering from an engineering standpoint how the stomp pad would contribute to heel turret integrity? Checking out the wildsnow report on the Zed, it states and shows in pics that the the ski boot heel remains suspended in free air above the stomp pad by either the pins in dh mode or the antiautorotate tab in touring mode. I just kinda assumed its function was more for some kind of anti snow buildup shield/guard for the antiautorotate component.

This was along the lines of what I was thinking. I can see the logic that stomp pad acts as a sort of "bottom out" protection after you flex the ski enough to take up that gap. But given a) that gap between stomp pads and boot will vary based on boot design and b) many tech heels don't require such a bottom out protection...that explanation is still sort of underwhelming.

[SumJongGuy]

Sudden and catastrophic failure when used without the brake or other 3/8ths inch pad under the boot seems indicative of bigger materials or design flaws to me as well. We all know this stuff gets more brittle with age and extreme temperature exposure. Will be interesting to see how these reservations and objections are answered by the vendor. Did they already know this was a problem early on and thus, ADDED the stomp pad for no brake installations? Or, are they also completely cold cocked by the revelations that the component which many would consider optional is, in fact way more mandatory than it should be??

[HukuTa_KydecHuk]

This was along the lines of what I was thinking. I can see the logic that stomp pad acts as a sort of "bottom out" protection after you flex the ski enough to take up that gap. But given a) that gap between stomp pads and boot will vary based on boot design and b) many tech heels don't require such a bottom out protection...that explanation is still sort of underwhelming.

Agree on this. I used G3 Ions non-LT version with removed brake for couple of trips until I figured how to bend them and assemble. Without stomp pad heel is indeed in the air. Never affected how they skied nor how they released even though I really abused them by skiing inbounds, dropping cliffs. I have the latest 2018 version. I realize it's not the way they are supposed to be used. But just my 5 cents.

[adrenalated]

I haven't had a warranty issue with G3 but the one time I needed to contact their customer service they treated me very well.
I'm not a dick and I don't recall ever posting a photo of my nutsack though so not sure my experience matters.

[hafjell]

By conclusive you mean that the stomp pad was not installed, correct?

Correct. I write "seemed" because the photo I sent was taken in low light and was a bit grainy. I couldn't tell; he said without hesitation that it wasn't installed.

[cravenmorhead]

I get that this is all currently in the works, but once G3 is able to take a look at the binding pieces, I'd be very curious to hear how the lack of a stomp pad is connected with this sort of double catastrophic failure.

[mall walker]

I get that this is all currently in the works, but once G3 is able to take a look at the binding pieces, I'd be very curious to hear how the lack of a stomp pad is connected with this sort of double catastrophic failure.

It's right in the name bro. How you gonna STOMP without the STOMP pad?

[hafjell]

This was along the lines of what I was thinking. I can see the logic that stomp pad acts as a sort of "bottom out" protection after you flex the ski enough to take up that gap. But given a) that gap between stomp pads and boot will vary based on boot design and b) many tech heels don't require such a bottom out protection...that explanation is still sort of underwhelming.

Don't think the engineer was implying anything beyond the shop should have installed the stomp pad if they didn't install brakes. It's not an elective part of the binding.
Somebody else above said that even without the stomp pad the catastrophic failure is confusing. The engineer would agree with that. He said simply, we have guides skiing 100 days on them who weigh as much as you do, and carry heavier packs, and are airing bigger jumps than you. So he's asked me to ship the bindings back directly to QC at G3.

[waxoff]

Kinda funny that many vendors, including Skimo, displays the brakeless Zed without stomp pad on their websites. I reckon that'll have to change...

[doebedoe]

Don't think the engineer was implying anything beyond the shop should have installed the stomp pad if they didn't install brakes. It's not an elective part of the binding.
Somebody else above said that even without the stomp pad the catastrophic failure is confusing. The engineer would agree with that. He said simply, we have guides skiing 100 days on them who weigh as much as you do, and carry heavier packs, and are airing bigger jumps than you. So he's asked me to ship the bindings back directly to QC at G3.

Good to hear that they are looking beyond the fact that the stomp pad wasn't installed correctly.

[doebedoe]

Kinda funny that many vendors, including Skimo, displays the brakeless Zed without stomp pad on their websites. I reckon that'll have to change...

That's because all the stock images provided from G3 to vendors do not include the stomp pad. Nor does their Zed mounting video mention it when they are talking about installing/not installing brakes.

[waxoff]

Yeah, but G3 don't have those pics on their own site any longer. Only with pad on the brakeless...

[SumJongGuy]

That's because all the stock images provided from G3 to vendors do not include the stomp pad. Nor does their Zed mounting video mention it when they are talking about installing/not installing brakes.

Yeah, but G3 don't have those pics on their own site any longer. Only with pad on the brakeless...

Might it be that the stomp pad may have been added later when they discovered the incidence of catastrophic failure without them??

[hafjell]

Might it be that the stomp pad may have been added later when they discovered the incidence of catastrophic failure without them??

I don't get that sense from the engineers.

[hafjell]

Good to hear that they are looking beyond the fact that the stomp pad wasn't installed correctly.

Absolutely. Last night on the phone I was the annoying guy who knows nothing and is still offering all sorts of possible explanations and suggestions. When I suggested that the stomp pad installed would solve all problems, he said, essentially, "yeah, it shouldn't have failed catastrophically so something else is up." He was way more nervous that I wouldn't send them back or that I would send them back to the wrong department than what kind of a refund or exchange I wanted. In his mind, any exchange or replacement was assumed.

[Ville]

Agree on this. I used G3 Ions non-LT version with removed brake for couple of trips until I figured how to bend them and assemble. Without stomp pad heel is indeed in the air. Never affected how they skied nor how they released even though I really abused them by skiing inbounds, dropping cliffs. I have the latest 2018 version. I realize it's not the way they are supposed to be used. But just my 5 cents.

I skied Atk bindings with and without their "stomp pads". Pad makes noticeable difference on hard snow. With out pad you "loose" tails of your skis compared to pads. Ofcourse to notice this you have to have proper boots.

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[hafjell]

They're sending me replacements in time for the weekend. Super easy. When I asked, they cut me off with a yes.
Going with the Ion LTs, but wish I had a bigger war chest to run two skis and two different bindings as I'd like to try the Zeds properly installed.

[BC.]

They're sending me replacements in time for the weekend. Super easy. When I asked, they cut me off with a yes.
Going with the Ion LTs, but wish I had a bigger war chest to run two skis and two different bindings as I'd like to try the Zeds properly installed.

It sounds like your situation turned out to be very positive. Props to G3 with providing what sounds like excellent customer service. You totally handled it the right way.....

I’m glad it worked for you....nothing sucks more than buying something new and it not “working”....let alone blow up right under your feet.

[SumJongGuy]

Ya, no doubt they are hoping that this is some really odd set of circumstances and that no more will blow apart like that regardless of how they were installed. It could even be something as weird as them getting freight damaged with tiny cracks that the tech didn't see when installing them. If it isn't something like that then it's going to be big trouble for the vendor and all who are using them. Now we wait and see with fingers crossed hoping nobody else has a similar problem.. and especially with all the parts properly installed.

[hafjell]

It sounds like your situation turned out to be very positive. Props to G3 with providing what sounds like excellent customer service. You totally handled it the right way.....

I’m glad it worked for you....nothing sucks more than buying something new and it not “working”....let alone blow up right under your feet.

Thanks. And thanks to everybody who helped me sort this out.
I just hung up the phone after another call from G3. I made a small error in an email, and they called to clarify. Crazily thorough customer service.

[XXX-er]

After the preliminary drama post (which is unusual/strange) the new product failure post is up on the webz with a whole series of great pictures, exactly 6:10 later somebody from G3 is on the job

It all seems kind of wierd cuz when does this ever happen in real life ?

I'm thinking some friend-of-G3 seen the post, gave them a heads up, they wisely jumped on it, did some good damage control

A real conspiracy theorist ( pretty much any american ) might say it was a setup

but in any case I don't think this is how G3 takes care of warranties on a day2day basis eh ?