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Thread: G3 Zed Heel Turret Failure
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12-08-2018, 12:54 AM #226Registered User
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There’s also the issue of all of their marketing materials for the brakeless binding very clearly omitting the stomp pad. Based on this statement it was obviously clear from the beginning that G3 knew the pad was required but never showed it. Also interesting is their new kit to modify the stomp pad. The fact that this modification kit has come out after the fact I think really demonstrates the lack of proper engineering going into this binding.
I suspect you might be getting to right spot here with weight targets. I strongly suspect G3 had a weight goal and did everything they could to achieve that goal even if the product was not reliable.
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12-08-2018, 01:24 AM #227
The reg ion with brake is 585, the Ion LT without brake is 456.
The Zed is 345 with brake. I'm guessing that if they added 50 or a hundred grams to make the heel turret more sturdy, it would put the Zed weight too close to the Ion LT.
I'm thinking it's pretty hard to market a brand new binding that weighs the same as the old binding, but now includes a break. Woopie. So instead they go for super light and make the compromise on the integrity/durability of the heel.
Note: The above is all total conjecture, speculation and opinion late on a Friday night and has no basis in reality.
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12-08-2018, 08:44 AM #228
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12-08-2018, 08:45 AM #229
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12-08-2018, 08:59 AM #230
Agreed, the root cause of the problem is independent of the stomp pad. The stomp pad greatly reduces the stress on the weak link preventing the problem from causing catastrophic failure... at least they hope that is the case.. Too soon to tell. Give it 5 years for the plastics and composites to become more brittle like they tend to do and we'll know for sure. Have fun rocking these in high exposure, fall and you die terrain..
Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!
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12-08-2018, 09:12 AM #231
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12-08-2018, 09:17 AM #232
Yeah. They screwed up and they should admit it and own it and take the hit. Really they should have hired a disinterested third party to develop the root cause analysis. At this point they've publicly committed to a line of bullshit that rewrites the laws of physics.
My expectation is that with the new, raised stomp plates, turret failures will not go away, but the frequency may reduce. At the same time we'll see an increased frequency of release failures due to boot soles getting hung up on stomp plates when they should be turning out of the bindings. The plates, or at least the originally issued ones, have a small contact surface, and zero vertical play, and I fully expect them to get swallowed by the soft tread of a touring boot.
The idea that the stomp plate was a planned structural design element is absolutely absurd. It's only there as a surface for walk mode. Also I find it impossible to believe that brakes, which will touch the bottoms of thinner soled boots, will provide any real mitigating structural support. It's not like they're locked in place when retracted. They will have as much additional vertical play as the boot allows for. It's clear to me that no actual mathematical analysis was involved in that write up. If there is, I would like to see it, so I can check its validity.
Also, there's no industry fucking standard for touring boot sole thickness. The bindings were designed for the thickest soled boots or they would be unmarketable. That's the bit that just makes me mad.
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12-08-2018, 09:23 AM #233
Do the mounting instructions make it clear that either the brake or stomp pad is required for the structural integrity of the binding?
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12-08-2018, 09:28 AM #234
G3 Zed Heel Turret Failure
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12-08-2018, 09:32 AM #235
i should have kept the instructions but it’s not entirely clear. the stomp pads come in a bag with the leashes instead of with the hardware so i could see people thinking they’re superfluous.
mine are still skiing well so far with mango maestraels in the meadows but i’m going to give them another look before i get on steep stuff.j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi
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12-08-2018, 09:49 AM #236Rod9301
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Correct
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12-08-2018, 09:58 AM #237
Seems to me the likely reality is that g3 are in damage limitation mode. Aggressively get the word out to use a stomp pad which reduces but does not eliminate the problem. Rabidly attempt (but probably ultimately fail) to remove any and all marketing copy that contains original images without stomp pad.
It's also likely that they will develop a fix for this issue. Interested parties should watch for slight weight changes for next year, if not late this season. This doesn't seem like the kind of thing you just leave alone.
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12-08-2018, 10:23 AM #238Registered User
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12-08-2018, 10:46 AM #239
Plenty, but not enough snow to ski it most of the time. Highest lift served elevation east of the Mississippi. But we have to travel west or north for harder lift served or hike to with snow terrain. I wouldn't ski that binding down the magic carpet run without having another pair of skis handy.
Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!
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12-08-2018, 10:53 AM #240Registered User
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Pins at the front & rear of the binding suspend the boot and thats how the design has worked for 20 yrs so I don't buy G3's take that anything is needed to support the boot heel especialy when the 200lb OP broke both heelpieces going mach nothing for 1 run
my first take is that plastic should not be used for a binding post and then I go back and look at the picts to note that it appears to be the heel piece that cracked NOT the post and BTW Dynafit are also using plastic for the binding post ... fucknose eh
so then what happened? It would appear to be either material or a design failure of the rotating part of the heelpiece to me, so all we can do is wait and see if there are any more cracked heel-piecesLee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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12-08-2018, 11:01 AM #241
Not buying the "we didn't know about all this boot sole thickness variation" angle, tech insert equipped boots with alpine and WTR soles have been around for almost ten years now, and they all have substantially shorter heel lugs than rockered-sole AT boots.
Probably everyone who has owned a pair of rockered AT boots has noticed this.
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12-08-2018, 11:06 AM #242
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12-08-2018, 11:07 AM #243
"We were unaware there are many alpine touring ski boots in the market that do not conform to the recognized industrial norm for positioning tech inserts in their boots."
riiiiiiiiiiight
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12-08-2018, 11:11 AM #244
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12-08-2018, 11:29 AM #245Registered User
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What is the point of damage control that nobody really buys ?
Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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12-08-2018, 11:54 AM #246
Say G3 had to recall and refund every Zed in the wild or replace it with a totally different stronger heel piece? Are they on solid enough financial ground to pull that off if they had to? Add in the damage to the reputation. Marker and Atomic are still suffering from their product recalls years and years ago..
Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!
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12-08-2018, 11:58 AM #247
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12-08-2018, 11:58 AM #248
[QUOTThe idea that the stomp plate was a planned structural design element is absolutely absurd. It's only there as a surface for walk mode.E][/QUOTE]
FWIW the boot heel doesn't even ride on the stomp pad while in walk mode. It rides on the horizontal tab that extends from the heelpiece itself. So the stomp pad should only come into play while taking a big hit while hucking. As documented elsewhere, the stomp pad doesn't come into play during normal skiing and actually move somewhat AWAY from the boot in a hard turn. Considering the OP was cruising at low speed, the tolerances of the stomp pad shouldn't matter.
I wonder if having the stomp pad installed somehow reinforces the support of the heelpiece while in ski mode. Is it possible the lack of support in flat tour mode without the stomp pads would result in weakening the heel?
Whether structural reinforcement through the stomp pad was intended by G3 or not, who knows? Seems like an extremely weak design along with possible problems with materials in the heelpiece and then compounded by the binding instructions/photos not making it clear the stomp pads were mandatory.
Giant cock-up all around that's fer sure.Do what you like. Try not to arbitrarily be an ass. -- skizix
the bumps are just better without hooveprints in them. -- lightranger
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12-08-2018, 12:26 PM #249Registered User
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Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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12-08-2018, 12:37 PM #250
Better factor in the kind of terrain their customers like to ski and what can happen during another failure of that magnitude where the consequences are a lot higher. People will go to jail if someone dies when falling off a cliff after their binding imploded under them..
Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!
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