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Thread: G3 Zed Heel Turret Failure
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11-21-2018, 08:52 PM #126
I was responding to the allegation that PowderWindWaves was an AI bot and not a human. Sure, folks can pretty easily set up "AI" to open chats on a landing page and regurgitate answers from a predermined FAQ list. Having full blown Watson running your call center and web traffic operations is a whole different level. PowderWindWaves posts would be what I'd consider impressive if that's an AI and not a human.
Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!
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11-22-2018, 04:58 AM #127
Apparently the bindings have shipped. A day late but they’re on the van. Should have been handled better. They played the not my job, somebody else’s job and that guy is sick card. (There’s nobody else in the building who can put a pair of bindings in a box?) The result is I won’t be skiing them this weekend. If that’s my biggest problem, I’m lucky. Happy Thanksgiving, Mags.
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11-22-2018, 06:49 AM #128
Unfortunate, but real. Especially if you're dealing with the engineers responsible for the binding design (which would be appropriate). It's not unusual for engineering to be totally disconnected from stuff like purchasing and shipping. They're probably frustrated by it, too, but you gotta pick your battles.
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11-22-2018, 07:27 AM #129
looks like g3 stepped up pretty big here. mine are mounted and ready to go for this weekend.
j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi
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11-22-2018, 07:39 AM #130Registered User
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not to be all cynical here, but G3 acted in accordance to their vested interest, which luckily for the OP also was in his. The lack of anything other than above and beyond service in this case would have been a potential brand and product disaster for G3. Mishaps and faults do occur, but confirmation bias aside, the main story here is that a pair of Zeds catastrophically failed - not that G3 stepped up to the plate and made it right.
It will be interesting to see how the design fares after a lot of hard core use, since the design apparently have >10ish mm play vertically (based on what sole your boot has). (>10mm being twice the 5mm to the stomp pad, and since what goes down seemingly logically also must have similar "positive"/upwards play) The use of "play" and not elasticity is intentional.
Hopefully this will be a lone occurrence as Zeds seem pretty damn awesome.
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11-22-2018, 07:40 AM #131"When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
"I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
"THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
"I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno
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11-22-2018, 07:56 AM #132
THIS. Especially if they're not made locally. It's not all that uncommon for a vendor to only have prototypes on site at corporate HQ having actual product shipped directly from China or a distributor to stores.. They may have had to find a shop in their network to pull a set of bindings and get them to send them to OP.... getting a retail store manager to do a special favor right before Black Friday.
Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!
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11-22-2018, 08:00 AM #133
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11-22-2018, 08:03 AM #134Registered User
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11-22-2018, 08:19 AM #135
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11-22-2018, 08:22 AM #136
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11-22-2018, 08:22 AM #137
Look, I hope I'm not wrong about this because I am going to ski the fucking things, but it sure seems to me that the bindings were not installed properly. Without the stomp pads you have a huge lever to pop the turrets straight off.
Hopefully this will be a lone occurrence as Zeds seem pretty damn awesome.j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi
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11-22-2018, 08:44 AM #138
Heel pins on tech heels probably don't have more than 2mm (unless pretty worn) of vertical slop, or people would complain about how they ski. So for a stomp pad to actually do anything, it would have to be closer to the boot than the amount of play. Considering the rubber boot sole also has some give, the pad would probably have to be touching it prior to being loaded, but then the pad could interfere with horizontal release (unless it has a sliding AFD). So probably the only pads that really work are adjustible or DIY ones that are shimmed tight against the boot, and the owner is a hard charger who breaks bindings and values support more than horizontal release.
So for most tech bindings, regardless of marketing BS, the heel pins / housing / tower carries all the load. (Slight upward assistance from a spring-loaded brake pedal is insignificant compared to skiing loads.)
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11-22-2018, 09:11 AM #139Registered User
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If a part was left out of the heel assembly i could see that causing the breakage
If you look at the picts in the links i posted the boot doesn't touch the stomp pad at allLee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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11-22-2018, 09:34 AM #140
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11-22-2018, 09:51 AM #141
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11-22-2018, 10:04 AM #142
Trynna solve three issues I have with classic tech heels.
1. non step out heel. Too many time been stuck upside down in treewell or head first down in a deep snow immersion and unable to click outta the toe...damn near killed me more than one time. In every case I could have triggered the heel with a pole or hand. I figure the little push tab to open the wings should do the trick. If yer skiing with toes unlocked, after clicking outta the heels, it's not a problem to twist outta the toes if yer in full panic survival mode...been there.
2. lack of precise lateral transfer from the heel. both models have wider pin spacing to address this issue...the plastic cutting board unit was insane though... I think having the connection point of pins to boot under the ankle bones results in direct and immediate plane of torque. Feels like yer connected to ski with an i-beam while doing fat ski on the hard back deck, lateral loading/ski motion like testing.
3. (not shown in pics) bike shifter style wire pull heel height riser adjustment. Sick and tired of fucking around with using a pole to dick around and hunt for heel risers in deep snow or having to precariously balance in techy no fall terrain to make adjustments...way too old for that shit.Last edited by swissiphic; 11-22-2018 at 10:27 AM.
Master of mediocrity.
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11-22-2018, 10:11 AM #143Registered User
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The WildSnow-photos you linked to and the caption stating 5mm gap is my source for 5mm. Thus, to hit the pad - since it being mia is the main culprit (barring a material issue/bad batch) - there needs to be at least 5mm play in order for the stomp pad to do anything. If it can flex 5mm one way, why not the same the other way - for instance if one gets pitched forward, but not enough to cause release. Potential play + plastics = (even i the vipec/tecton/plastic loving guy can see) potential stress failure scenario.
Again, i am hoping this was a one off as i am really intrigued by the design, but am just stating the implications of the data i have been presented. Knowing my sources, both they and i could be mistaken. I have absolutely no idea what the "normal" vertical play in tech heels is, and also see that the main issue is downward flex (as ml pointed out, to cause a lever arm an pop them off the base), though upward flex could make unintentional release an issue - if we are going all worst case scenario thinking here. Once again - i do not make these points to have anybody second guessing their investment - this might be a once off. I am just a bit unimpressed with the current explanation.
(... just means that i took away parts, no comment/criticism meant)
Perhaps, agreed and agreed respectively. And btw, if i can across as a wiseass, my apologies - such was not my intent. I just did not want this to turn into a thread about CS
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11-22-2018, 10:33 AM #144
A few points:
1) Gap between boot heel and stomp pad isn't closed because of play in the binding, but flex in the ski.
2) Stomp pad may provide some sort of structural structural support for heel tower without the boot ever hitting the stomp pad. This obviously doesn't mean the way these bindings broke is acceptable.
3) Don't buy 1st year tech bindings.
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11-22-2018, 10:44 AM #145
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11-22-2018, 10:46 AM #146
Doesn't the stomp pad gap increase when the ski flexes deeply?
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11-22-2018, 10:47 AM #147
I have nothing to contribute to this thread except to shout out a big thank you to those who buy and break 1st year tech bindings so I don't need to do so
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11-22-2018, 10:47 AM #148
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11-22-2018, 10:50 AM #149Registered User
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1) could be. Unless my understanding of how a ski flexes is way off, a ski flexing like a U due to a compression would most often then mean that the stomp pad flexes away no - especially if the floating design makes the rear slide back? With compressions being also what would cause the binding to potentially flex down, how does the pad then prevent the 5mm of downward flex? What am i not getting here?
2) could be - i have no idea.
3) hehe.
and yes, i do realize the points were made in general and not necessarily at me
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11-22-2018, 10:55 AM #150
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