Shift vs Tectons

[Havn]

The help you received in this thread (as a new poster), and you're keeping the deal you got PRIVATE with no further explanation?

I used to think this board was hard on new members, but I'm coming to understand.

I don't mind posting deals, just a newb to this forum so wasn't sure of the etiquette in posting them. I've been in some forums where I got lambasted for posting deals publicly. Apparently ruined it for some who were on the fence about a product and lost out because I posted the deal and others jumped on it.

Anyway, since it seems like it's not a big deal here, I got the Tectons off Barrabes. It currently has the 90mm for $450. Got it down to $400 with a 5% coupon for signing up for their newsletter and a pre-Black Friday coupon I was sent for having bought stuff with them before.

[galibier_numero_un]

Thanks for the explanation. Since Sport Conrad apparently no longer ships to the US, has anyone had experience with these folks?

I see their advertised price for Shifts is 371.89 Euros (before any discount).

... Thom

[TahoeJ]

And i get that. I'm still not willing to sacrifice ski performance on a setup that's meant for skiing. if the primary purpose was very long distance traverses that would be a different story. I mostly tour to go skiing so my willingness to sacrifice ski performance for weight is no doubt different to others. It's important but not the be all end all.

Sure, I’m the same. So, used my shifts today and I literally couldn’t tell the difference from STH2’s on back to back runs. But the Tectons are damn close as well. But that’s why those are what I have and not any true tech heel bindings - that locked down heel is the big difference maker IMO, more so than toe elasticity. Although having at least a little helps.

[kid-kapow]

You can go light weight bindings, like the Salomon mtn, and you will be fine on any ski. Not true that light bindings, at least this one will be overpowered by anything.

MTNs will be a compromise in safety (due to release) and ride feel (due to lack of elasticity) compared to Tectons/Shifts. That is not to say MTNs are poor bindings - they are most def not.

So while I would not overpower MTNs, they + 1200gr ski as a system would have a much more jarring and easily overpowered feel mated with XTD 130s, than the same set up with say a TLT6, or say a 1600gr ski with Tectons. If i mount MTNs on that same 1600gr ski, they will still provide a more jarring ride than the Tectons, but be lighter on the up.

The point was i was trying to make was to think of bindings, skis and boots as a whole, not as individual parts. It was not that MTNs or ATKs suck - they do not and I was extremely impressed with the pair i owned (I've been singing MTNs + ATKs praises in other threads for being excellent light weight bindings). That being said, the more or less undebatable consensus is that they provide and will continue to provide a less smooth /more jarring ride everywhere compared to Tectons or Shifts (or Vipecs) except untouched fresh.

Of course, if all you ride is soft, fresh snow and you have legs of steel , MTNs and ATKs will be more than enough binding for all your touring needs The same will be true if you value / prioritize low weight over elasticity and toe release. At the end of the day it is all about picking your poison (be it weight, elasticity, perceived/actual safety, price, easy of use, walk modes, etc) and pick the bindings that fits your needs and priorities the best. There is no "best binding ever", but a number of very refined and amazing products that fit individuals better or worse. And if you also consider the snow you will be riding, how your boots, bindings and skis will interact, then you will be all the better for it

And if it isn't obvious, my opinions in this thread have been general in nature, not OP specific.

To the OP: Good to hear that you found a killer deal!

[margotron]

Thanks for the explanation. Since Sport Conrad apparently no longer ships to the US, has anyone had experience with these folks?

I see their advertised price for Shifts is 371.89 Euros (before any discount).

... Thom

Snowinn. Don’t forget them. Usually great prices

[galibier_numero_un]

I always forget them. Thanks!

[LeeLau]

Thanks for the explanation. Since Sport Conrad apparently no longer ships to the US, has anyone had experience with these folks?

I see their advertised price for Shifts is 371.89 Euros (before any discount).

... Thom

Oooh Barrabes is a really good collection of physical stores in Spain with good online presence. Very reputable

[Havn]

Oooh Barrabes is a really good collection of physical stores in Spain with good online presence. Very reputable

Agreed. Have bought climbing gear from them before and went without a hitch.

[summit]

I’ll admit that this can’t be quantified, but I went with the Shifts for my powder touring setup (to be used almost 100% in the BC) for safety purposes. I worry about tib/fib spiral fractures when deep Tahoe snow is involved, and although Tectons are likely better at preventing that than other pin bindings, the Shift has significantly more toe elasticity. I otherwise would have gone Tecton for weight, multiple risers, and likely no real loss of performance in powder.


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SAFETY
I think one thing people don't consider (and I've only recently become aware of) is researching showing that the slotted Dynafit MasterStep toe fittings may actually increase release forces when used with MNC bindings whether the Shift, any of the frame bindings, or an alpine MNC like a Tyrolia Attack or Marker Jester. Why? Because the metal channels of the slot extend beyond the rest of the toe rand and it was demonstrated in testing to drag on the rollers in these MNC binding toes during release. That would likely negate any better safety from running lower lateral release settings d/t increased lateral elasticity on a Shift vs a Tecton if you own boots with these.

[gregL]

I think one thing people don't consider (and I've only recently become aware of) is researching showing that the slotted Dynafit MasterStep toe fittings may actually increase release forces when used with MNC bindings whether the Shift, any of the frame bindings, or an alpine MNC like a Tyrolia Attack or Marker Jester.

Any shop selling the Shift (or Warden 13/Warden 11) should be aware of this and will probably refuse to mount a boot with QuickStep inserts with those bindings, as per Amer Sports current guidelines. Marker, on the other hand, says QuickStep inserts are OK with SoleID bindings. Haven't heard anything from Tyrolia re: Attack 14 AT.

[TahoeJ]

SAFETY
I think one thing people don't consider (and I've only recently become aware of) is researching showing that the slotted Dynafit MasterStep toe fittings may actually increase release forces when used with MNC bindings whether the Shift, any of the frame bindings, or an alpine MNC like a Tyrolia Attack or Marker Jester. Why? Because the metal channels of the slot extend beyond the rest of the toe rand and it was demonstrated in testing to drag on the rollers in these MNC binding toes during release. That would likely negate any better safety from running lower lateral release settings d/t increased lateral elasticity on a Shift vs a Tecton if you own boots with these.

Post that in the Shift thread - I'd be curious to hear a response.

[retirwntm]

I have RS2’s and plan to mount with shifts so am interested in all this.

That said did someone discuss Amer and Scarpa working on an indemnity or some such clause or agreement?


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[XavierD]

Shifts are currently an official no-go for any master fit insert boots (Scarpa, Dynafit). Amer and Scarpa are in talks

New free ride Maestrale replacing the Freedom next year uses traditional inserts.

[gregL]

Shifts are currently an official no-go for any master fit insert boots (Scarpa, Dynafit). Amer and Scarpa are in talks

New free ride Maestrale replacing the Freedom next year uses traditional inserts.

You mean "QuickStep" inserts, as found in current Scarpa and Dynafit boots. "MasterStep" inserts (also not ISO 9523 according to Amer) are Dynafit only, and most of the current boots that come with them have no toe welt anyway so you'd have a hard time skiing downhill in any MNC binding. The Beast boots had MasterStep inserts as well.

[steveski]

Something else that hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread is mount pattern. What a treat to have Fritschi keep the mount pattern the same between Vipec/Tecton and (hopefully) future versions and development down the line.

Having a few pairs of skis with Vipec inserts I was interested in getting a pair of Tectons... but then Shift.

[riff]

As a result of this thread I spent 30 seconds with my angle grinder making my Quickstep fittings flush. All set now.


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[retirwntm]

Have you mounted the shifts? If so did you bench test them before and after?

How about the pins? Did you try them before and after grinding them to make sure the pins still work the same?


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[ticketchecker]

Shifts are currently an official no-go for any master fit insert boots (Scarpa, Dynafit). Amer and Scarpa are in talks

New free ride Maestrale replacing the Freedom next year uses traditional inserts.

Which fittings do Zero G et al have? master or quickstep?

I don't have mine handy to look at, I just know they had the Dynafit condom on them when new

[riff]

I don’t have shifts, but sometimes i ski a binding with toe wings. Figured why not.


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[margotron]

i agree, except for the Vipec part. I still think there is a place for these, at least in my quiver. It is the lightest binding on the market with frontal elasticity, if not exactly svelte. From them there is a bit of a gap i believe, to lighter weight bindings such as ATKs, MTNs and other lighter bindings.

i am sure Ions, Radicals and so on ski just fine, but with zero elasticity up front I have a hard time justifying either going with Vipecs for safety or going significantly lighter. I will probably at some point cave and go with light weight (sub 350) bindings on a pair of long haul skis, but for now I am very happy with brakeless Vipecs for that use - 440gr evo /520gr black pr ski isn't that bad for the performance you get out of them. They are light enough, and ski and tour awesomely.

Can you weigh your Evos? Mine weigh 502 w/o brakes and 601 with brakes. Not close to 440.

Toe 270g
Heel: 230g
Heel brake attachment plate: 40g
Brake: 70g

I just bought these off backcountry

[kid-kapow]

I have Blacks.

quoted weight brakeless: https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...schi-vipec-evo

When i think about it a bit more, I believe Blister is mistaken, as i pointed out below. As such, please ignore the 440gr number - it is more likely than not mistaken!

i think it is just a measuring or more probably typing error – the toe pieces are identical. Fritschi/BD states the weight at 500gr sans brakes, which indicates that the tecton weight is the correct one – not the weight above. I also concur with the sentiments above – the vipecs skis excellently for their intended use and are much better safety wise than the comparable competition. I too have had the risers pop off, but it is a super easy fix. And yes, the new evo/tecton front is a lot easier to get into and release even better vertically – so much so that i ended up getting more tectons than originally was the plan. I wholeheartedly recommend the vipecs/tectons

[margotron]

I have Blacks.

quoted weight brakeless: https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...schi-vipec-evo

When i think about it a bit more, I believe Blister is mistaken. The post

Yeah I think that's right. 500g w/o brakes is exactly where mine land.

[summit]

Which fittings do Zero G et al have? master or quickstep?

I don't have mine handy to look at, I just know they had the Dynafit condom on them when new

ZG have neither quick nor master step. They are standard dynafit tech fittings.

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[Gman]

Shifts are currently an official no-go for any master fit insert boots (Scarpa, Dynafit). Amer and Scarpa are in talks

New free ride Maestrale replacing the Freedom next year uses traditional inserts.

I’m surprised this isn’t being talked about more widely. I imagine quite a few shift buyers are using boots/inserts that aren’t safe.

[1000-oaks]

As a result of this thread I spent 30 seconds with my angle grinder making my Quickstep fittings flush. All set now.

Nice work, this fix is officially "the Riff mod" from now on.