Forward angle on boots

[Bdog325]

Someone school me on the forward angle of boots. I got some new boots for the first time and they have adjustable forward tilt. Right now they are at 10 degree although they can be adjusted up to 14.

How does the forward angle effect your skiing? What's better for all mountain with an emphasis on powder, side country and the daily jump or drop?

[reckless toboggan]

What's better for all mountain with an emphasis on powder, side country and the daily jump or drop?

The red ones.

[nickel]

all else being equal, more upright favors modern style and skis that like to be skied from a centered stance. it's not for everyone.

it's a preference thing basically.

[LiveLarger]

I find that very upright boots make it hard to "sit" lower. When you bend your knees a lot, it's easy to end up backseat. Makes it harder to get big angles etc. I have heard people argue that upright boots make skiing "less tiring"

But yeah, I guess it's a preference thing, and also a body thing.

It used to float a picture around here explaining how different femur and tibia length would affect the ramp angle and boot tilt needed to be in balance. What is good for me, might not be good for you.

[auvgeek]

https://www.southernski.com/balance-...-critical.html

[gregL]

Ideally you want to be neutral - not pressing on either the tongue of the boot or the rear cuff - when you are in your natural ski stance. Lots of things can affect what feels "neutral" to a given skier, like femur-to-tibia length ratio, size of your ass, lack of dorsiflexion, ingrained technique, etc. If you aren't sure, it's probably safest to try to recreate the forward lean of your previous boot.

[XavierD]

As mentioned individual bio mechanics factor into it. Too much forward lean is often the culprit for folks skiing in the back seat. Too little forward lean can also lead to backseat skiing. Most boots come with 12-16d out of the box, with 4-6 deg of ramp angle. All Langes, Rossignol and Men’s K2 and Nordicas come stock with 12 deg (no spoiler). Women’s Nordicas are 11.5. Atomic are all 15. Head is 16d.

[Self Jupiter]

Xavier- any idea appx how many degrees a spoiler adds?

I, for one prefer a lot of forward lean on boots and skis that prefer a neutral stance. As a result, It kind of looks like I’m taking a dump.

[auvgeek]

As mentioned individual bio mechanics factor into it. Too much forward lean is often the culprit for folks skiing in the back seat.

Truth. People too often assume they "need" excessive forward lean to "stay out of the backseat" when the exact opposite is actually the case.

I thought Lange was 11 deg, but same difference.

[XavierD]

Xavier- any idea appx how many degrees a spoiler adds?

I, for one prefer a lot of forward lean on boots and skis that prefer a neutral stance. As a result, It kind of looks like I’m taking a dump.

It will vary based on spoiler placement, lower leg length, and cuff height. Some spoilers are thicker than others. The Lange and K2 ones are the thickest, and generally add 2-3 deg of forward lean. The Nordica/Tecnica one’s are very thin and might offer a 1/2 deg of forward lean.

[Self Jupiter]

Thanks! Appreciate it. I’m going to play around with less forward lean at some point this season. To this point, I’ve always given up on it after a run.

[XXX-er]

During some kitchen sessions I had a drinking bud / boot fitter tell me my boots had too much forward lean so he put a couple of maagzines under the toes and it felt better to be more upright so I asked how he could tell and he said " simple, yer ass was sticking out " I put a shim under the toe piece and skiing was better

if op has boots that easily change lean ...just try both and see what feels good

[phattypowpow]

Agreed with everyone else on personal preference and a variety of factors. One more to add: calf size (not just length). Basically, the back of the boot is not going anywhere. The bigger your calf, the more forward the front of the cuff will be when buckled up. I believe this creates a greater effective lean angle. You can see it just looking at folks - big calves act almost like a built-in spoiler (spoiler implant?). I have chicken legs and I'm usually on the tightest positions on the upper buckles on any boot. On any boot with a "modern" (read: upright) lean angle, I'm falling backwards the moment I start to bend my knees. For this reason, I'm most comfortable and balanced with an old school 16-18 degree angle. YMMV.

Makes boot shopping a lot easier since I can filter out a ton of options. For example, I was looking for a burlier, kind of light boot for mixed lift and sidecountry use this season. Technica Zero G Pro: 12-13 degrees. Atomic XTD Ultra Hawx: 15-17. Bam. Of course, you can't completely trust the numbers and you can fiddle with lean with spoilers/lifts/etc but I almost always end up happy with the boot with higher claimed forward lean.

Curious to hear what others with small/large calves think about this.

[gregL]

Curious to hear what others with small/large calves think about this.

Absolutely right, calf size/shape can be a huge variable, as can heel shape . . .

[nickel]

never thought about it but i have ginormous calves and prefer a slightly more upright boot. i can adapt easily on this front though.

[Stewy30]

Not sure where I read it, but my go by is to squat all the way down in the boot until your butt is as low as it can go, and the goal is to just about to topple backwards, but not quite. Worked for me. YMMV


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[rod9301]

Not sure where I read it, but my go by is to squat all the way down in the boot until your butt is as low as it can go, and the goal is to just about to topple backwards, but not quite. Worked for me. YMMV


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The book Ultimate skiing

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[smooth operator]

As mentioned individual bio mechanics factor into it. Too much forward lean is often the culprit for folks skiing in the back seat. Too little forward lean can also lead to backseat skiing. Most boots come with 12-16d out of the box, with 4-6 deg of ramp angle. All Langes, Rossignol and Men’s K2 and Nordicas come stock with 12 deg (no spoiler). Women’s Nordicas are 11.5. Atomic are all 15. Head is 16d.

Do those numbers hold for the wc models as well, or do they have more fwd lean? I felt my Lange ZA have more fwd lean than my Raptor 130's, but could be due to other factors.

another Q: Is there a standardised way to measure forward lean, and if yes, what is it?

[nyskirat]

Do those numbers hold for the wc models as well, or do they have more fwd lean? I felt my Lange ZA have more fwd lean than my Raptor 130's, but could be due to other factors.

another Q: Is there a standardised way to measure forward lean, and if yes, what is it?

This is from OneNerdyKid over on NS (hence the Atomic references):

In racing, no one uses anything less than 18°. Most of our racers are between 20-24° (18° cuff + rear spoilers of various thicknesses).

It also depends on how a company measures their forward lean, which is not standardized. Some brands try to line up from the hinge point to the center of the top of the cuff- but that will change depending on how tight the boot is buckled. Others, like us, go off the back of the cuff line (the rear line the cuff actually makes). Even that is not exact because the shape on the inside of the cuff determines the actual, felt forward lean. So this is not easy.

In general, we find that 15° of forward lean combined with a 4° ramp angle is what puts people in an athletic, "ready" position for skiing. This is how almost all of our boots come out of the box. Only Redster comes out with more, starting at 16° and can go to 18° and then spoilers can take it further.

Don't know what the Lange forward lean is, but there is no standardized measurement technique FWIW. So it's possible it has "less" due to how it is measured vs the Head

[skinipenem]

The book Ultimate skiing

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This.

And find a great bootfitter. Visit them. Tp them with cash and scotch.


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[skinipenem]

During some kitchen sessions I had a drinking bud / boot fitter tell me my boots had too much forward lean so he put a couple of maagzines under the toes and it felt better to be more upright so I asked how he could tell and he said " simple, yer ass was sticking out " I put a shim under the toe piece and skiing was better

if op has boots that easily change lean ...just try both and see what feels good

That's changing the delta.. Not forward lean. Fwiw.

The is a good discussion on pugski about forward lean, but not in depth enough to solve one's own problems without lots of experimentation.

OP, kind of sweet you have adjustable forward lean to play around with

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[margotron]

For a time I thought less lean was better for me. You know, forward mount points and all. How wrong. I ski with a lot of forward lean. Experimenting is key. A bootfitter can't watch you ski - you need to feel the difference yourself.

I do think the general statement that the taller you are (or more accurately the longer your legs) the more lean


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[skinipenem]

For a time I thought less lean was better for me. You know, forward mount points and all. How wrong. I ski with a lot of forward lean. Experimenting is key. A bootfitter can't watch you ski - you need to feel the difference yourself.

I do think the general statement that the taller you are (or more accurately the longer your legs) the more lean


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Interesting... I have long tibial compared to my femurs and like upright and stiff boots. Softer boots with more forward lean puts my knees too far forward over my toes and skiing gets wonky

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[margotron]

Interesting... I have long tibial compared to my femurs and like upright and stiff boots. Softer boots with more forward lean puts my knees too far forward over my toes and skiing gets wonky

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Perfect example! I have flexible ankles and long femur. I'm off balance in upright boots, not "ready position"


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[Lord Thomas]

Very interesting thread. Just for reference, where do Tecnica (e.g. Mach series), Salomon (e.g. QST, S/MAX), Dalbello (e.g. Lupo, Pantera) typically sit on the forward lean scale?