Buy Once, Cry Once Shell Jacket and Bibs?? Opinions!

[Micol]

YMMV or maybe the stuff has changed from 5 years ago but IME Neo shell is good for touring but I don't wear it riding lifts, not water resistant or wind proof enough

IME you can have light weight or resistance to abuse but you can't have it all

https://www.taigaworks.ca/cart.php?m...t_detail&p=688

these ^^ are some of the toughest bibs, you see people in BC still wearing them 30 years later

My 4 to 5 years in neoshell says different, so do my customers all over North and south America , What exact brands and a description of their neoshell have you worn to warant this statement
? I’m curious

I agree with u On the next statement about durability and performance fabrics to a point. Clothing could be made out of 1000 denier near cordura and ballistic nylons But those won’t breath and you will sweat like a pig. I think if you ask most professionals they would rather have the performance as long as their workplaces paying the bill LOL

30 year pants are going to have some serious crotch rot though

[markcjr]

YMMV or maybe the stuff has changed from 5 years ago but IME Neo shell is good for touring but I don't wear it riding lifts, not water resistant or wind proof enough

IME you can have light weight or resistance to abuse but you can't have it all

https://www.taigaworks.ca/cart.php?m...t_detail&p=688

these ^^ are some of the toughest bibs, you see people in BC still wearing them 30 years later

For sure, I bought some neoshell compound pants by flylow in 2017 not researching enough and it is not burly enough for lift riding in storms. Had no idea that neoshell was more touring focused. When I wore my normal get up underneath of just one layer of long underwear, the wind blows right through it and the fabric wets out. I was pretty damn cold that first day. Also the fabric is a 40 denier I think, so tears pretty easy from Edge cuts. Would definitely recommend going Gore-Tex/ whatever Brands knock off of a high denier fabric. Something like the flylow baker bibs or North Face fuse brigandine bib/pant, or early trew stuff.

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[ACH]

https://www.taigaworks.ca/cart.php?m...t_detail&p=688

these ^^ are some of the toughest bibs, you see people in BC still wearing them 30 years later

Interesting, I don't think I've ever seen this brand/product...
Anyone here have a pair of these that can comment?

[Micol]

When do we get FRS pants? Preferably insulated in at least the seat and knees.

Are they just trying to restock colors for this year? I like the yellow.

I have a pair of frs pants lol, polartec neoshell softshell thick with low loft micro grid velour as the internal 3rd layer, double knees with insert access for football knee pads, cross vent legs, 4 pockets, super fabric cuffs, fully seam taped, Awesome after 3 years of pure abuse ski and sled

When we selling ? Most likely never....You guys of terror mop and then want me to warrantee them for life while paying about 200 bucks

I cannot comment on Denier of jackets due to trade secret, You will have to make do by personally fondling one or vague reference E. G. Heavy medium , light etc

[Micol]

For sure, I bought some neoshell compound pants by flylow in 2017 not researching enough and it is not burly enough for lift riding in storms. Had no idea that neoshell was more touring focused. When I wore my normal get up underneath of just one layer of long underwear, the wind blows right through it and the fabric wets out. I was pretty damn cold that first day. Also the fabric is a 40 denier I think, so tears pretty easy from Edge cuts. Would definitely recommend going Gore-Tex/ whatever Brands knock off of a high denier fabric. Something like the flylow baker bibs or North Face fuse brigandine bib/pant, or early trew stuff.

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Again I must emphasize, neoshell is spec’d by brand including DWR, You guys cannot put every Neoshell made garment together fro comparison , I’m flat out telling you you’re wrong, did the version that you purchased have the problems you stated absolutely yes. But that is what flylow to asked polartec to make for them. Did you know that you cannot even test version without ordering 100 yards? This means a lot of what brands create has gone through zero testing. Any wetting out has absolutely nothing to do with the membrane and everything to do with the DWR

Is the person that designed those pants familiar with yarns? Did they order 100 yards of test fabric Make a garment , seam tape it, and then take it out in the field to 14,000 feet plus. I would say they did not. Some of them do.

[homebrewd]

Ooh ooh, Antero 2+ is 80d?

My 2+ feels burlier than my deadbirds that are N80p-X

[Micol]

Man I’m driving and having a hard time responding to this thread my iPhone is wreaking havoc on everything I say or type, there is no AI at work either, it sucks

[XXX-er]

Marmot Nabu Neo shell bought 5 years ago its been a favorite piece for being active in the outdooors where I want breathability but it just doesn't handle wind and precip while sitting around on the chair like gortex, it never did from new even after retreating and I didnt expect it to

Taiga is a local outfit 30-40 yrs ago they were right across the parking lot from MEC in Vancover when they only had 1 store so lotsa people bought their stuff. My bibs are black but Taiga made a lot of them in a distictive red with blue knee/butt patches so you still see that easily recognisable pattern at ski resorts in BC worn by people with grey hair

just for shits and giggles I pulled my 30 yar old pair of Avalanche bibs out of the closet and they still look good if not a little faded but the elastic has not rotted out, no holes or damage, I could still wear them... well made piece

[markcjr]

Again I must emphasize, neoshell is spec’d by brand including DWR, You guys cannot pull up every Neoshell garment together, I’m flat out telling you you’re wrong, did the version that you purchased have the problems you stated absolutely yes. But that is what flylow to asked polartec to make for them. Did you know that you cannot even test version without ordering 100 yards? This means a lot of what brands create has gone through zero testing. Any wetting out has absolutely nothing to do with the membrane and everything to do with the DWR

Great info, thanks micol. Will look at your stuff in the future. Fly low advertised it as their flagship model so I just assumed it was burley. Should have just gone for the less expensive Baker bib which everyone raves about is being super tough for the resorts.

Okay everybody I should not make a blanket statement about neoshell. Manufacturer can spec neoshell to be tough and have a good dwr. Just need to research it more next time. The reviews on the flylow website led me to believe it was a pant for the hardest charging skiers which is me of course. I drank the Kool-Aid but was not impressed.

Seems like neo shell is everywhere so, micol, I assume you do a bang-up job with it. Like I said I will check your stuff out if you offer large tall in jacket and pants.

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[auvgeek]

Fly low advertised it as their flagship model so I just assumed it was burley.

It's important to note that a "flagship" model can be for inbounds or touring. The mfg is usually pretty clear about this, but not always, and it seems more and more that the most expensive model is geared towards touring. Trew just came out with a new "flagship" touring bib -- sadly, I doubt it means they will make the Trewth more burly for inbounds but it would be really nice if they did. Just like there is no substitute for mass in skis or boots, there's no substitute for thickness in pants. And quite frankly, I don't really care about breathability inbounds when I have size zips for the chair or hiking.

[stuckathuntermtn]

MiCol, are more 2plus's on their way? Perhaps with a hint of stretch? Heavy? Bright, pull-me-out-of-a-treewell colors?
Those pants sound pretty good, and I tend not to be too hard on warrantees

[Micol]

Great info, thanks micol. Will look at your stuff in the future. Fly low advertised it as their flagship model so I just assumed it was burley. Should have just gone for the less expensive Baker bib which everyone raves about is being super tough for the resorts.

Okay everybody I should not make a blanket statement about neoshell. Manufacturer can spec neoshell to be tough and have a good dwr. Just need to research it more next time. The reviews on the flylow website led me to believe it was a pant for the hardest charging skiers which is me of course. I drank the Kool-Aid but was not impressed.

Seems like neo shell is everywhere so, micol, I assume you do a bang-up job with it. Like I said I will check your stuff out if you offer large tall in jacket and pants.

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My experience boot packing has been cracking a zipper on the pants leg on a Ridge top results in near frostbite. Also that snow that is swept up by the wind feels like needles.The only work around I found is with cross vents in the legs and opening the side that is leeward. My personal experience was that I wanted fabric breathability to release moisture derive from sweat because I did not want that inside my garment. Because high humidity air is cold as shit.

Sorry traffic in this fucking iPhone probably butchered the response

[chaka]

Glad I read this thread! FRS gear looks SOLID. Nice work MiCol.
Anyone have firsthand PNW wet "snow" experience in FRS to share?

[auvgeek]

My experience boot packing has been cracking a zipper on the pants leg on a Ridge top results in near frostbite. Also that snow that is swept up by the wind feels like needles.The only work around I found is with cross vents in the legs and opening the side that is leeward. My personal experience was that I wanted fabric breathability to release moisture derive from sweat because I did not want that inside my garment. Because high humidity air is cold as shit.

Sorry traffic in this fucking iPhone probably butchered the response

CO vs PNW.

[Micol]

^ I know we’ve sent a lot to pnw maybe one of those mags can chime in

No more stock jackets this season, deep in massive uniform job, then straight into our Japan production, (gawd still have tons of selection out there but admittedly a lot has sold out )

I will give u guys this too, I don’t ever want low denier greige of any fabric on my ass in a chair, crap or old DWR, nor high psi in the pooter, that’s pushing for trouble

However with that being said I have used my Nero Cheryl fuuucckkkk!!! Neoshell softshell pants in chairs a lot and I know the DWR is significantly worn away, I will try to brush lose snow off a chair seat, maybe u guys sit in it if liftee doesn’t broom it?

[Micol]

CO vs PNW.

u could be on something here hopefully some of our pnw customers chime in but it won’t be about pants, high psi on ass from inbounds chair

[wicked_sick]

Glad I read this thread! FRS gear looks SOLID. Nice work MiCol.
Anyone have firsthand PNW wet "snow" experience in FRS to share?

I have an Antero 2+ that I use as a winter rain shell and main ski jacket at Whistler and the local Vancouver ski hills. I have never become wet or uncomfortable, even when it's raining at the base and a blizzard in the Alpine. The jacket is extremely well made, the fabric seems quite tough, and the big hood/face guard combo is awesome. The zippers are easy to use with gloves, and everything just works. Customer service is top notch, too.

[Micol]

^ thank you
FTR that was unsolicited

[auvgeek]

u could be on something here hopefully some of our pnw customers chime in but it won’t be about pants, high psi on ass from inbounds chair

For the record, I wasn't speaking about jackets, but pants (bibs) specifically and only for riding lifts. I care alot more about breathability in my jackets than my pants for inbounds. Maybe I'm missing out, but I've tried various pant deniers and fabrics and have the most success (aka least discomfort) with the OG Trewth which are super thick and burly. Anyway, I'm sure your jackets are amazing, and I've been lusting after an Antero II+ for a while now.

[homebrewd]

I think it really boils down to having the right jacket for the weather conditions for your area. I like having a burly 3L hard for inbounds and ultra cold touring days, lightweight packable hard for everyday touring, and a softshell for mild and spring days.

One thing I'm curious about is how humidity (or lack of it) affects material longevity and seam life.

[Micol]

For the record, I wasn't speaking about jackets, but pants (bibs) specifically and only for riding lifts. I care alot more about breathability in my jackets than my pants for inbounds. Maybe I'm missing out, but I've tried various pant deniers and fabrics and have the most success (aka least discomfort) with the OG Trewth which are super thick and burly. Anyway, I'm sure your jackets are amazing, and I've been lusting after an Antero II+ for a while now.

I agree with you. I was just telling the op on a pm That the only pants I have worn in over a decade have some stretch and tend to be soft shell (old cloudveil scholler, old OR Valhalla gore weatherstopper, my frs Neoshell softshell) except one pair of Gore pro for touring and warm weather

In my opinion having stretch in the pants is a huge plus. You know we all contract and expand throughout the season. I know those guys that look like they’ve got 12 pleats in the front of their hardshell pants by May and punching holes in their belts , with foot long tongue, but if you were traveling in between inbounds, side country, backcountry, sled accessed skiing, fully seam seam taped membranes softshell pants are awesome. I usually wear them with just boxer shorts. Makes for a funny conversation on the lift when you open up all four Vents and appear nearly nude. That iteration of fab’rik as long as you do not allow delamination to occur seems to be the most rugged and breathable. I probably could’ve gotten creative with the free ride and put in some targeted panels in specific areas but they work really well just all that one fabric.

I thought that if Flylow magnums were advertised to be that pant back in the day. But I got a hold of a pair and they were not.

[Micol]

I think it really boils down to having the right jacket for the weather conditions for your area. I like having a burly 3L hard for inbounds and ultra cold touring days, lightweight packable hard for everyday touring, and a softshell for mild and spring days.
.

Agreed

[auvgeek]

I agree with you. I was just telling the op on a pm That the only pants I have worn in over a decade have some stretch and tend to be soft shell (old cloudveil scholler, old OR Valhalla gore weatherstopper, my frs Neoshell softshell) except one pair of Gore pro for touring and warm weather

In my opinion having stretch in the pants is a huge plus. You know we all contract and expand throughout the season. I know those guys that look like they’ve got 12 pleats in the front of their hardshell pants by May and punching holes in their belts , with foot long tongue, but if you were traveling in between inbounds, side country, backcountry, sled accessed skiing, fully seam seam taped membranes softshell pants are awesome. I usually wear them with just boxer shorts. Makes for a funny conversation on the lift when you open up all four Vents and appear nearly nude. That iteration of fab’rik as long as you do not allow delamination to occur seems to be the most rugged and breathable. I probably could’ve gotten creative with the free ride and put in some targeted panels in specific areas but they work really well just all that one fabric.

I thought that if Flylow magnums were advertised to be that pant back in the day. But I got a hold of a pair and they were not.

See, we have totally different approaches here, which is awesome to hear. My weight doesn't fluctuate much (hasn't really changed since high school), and I have 4 pairs of ski pants/layering systems ranging from OR Ferrosi pants (for spring touring) to Trewth bibs. I realize now that I might be an anomaly on both those points. But yeah, if I wanted one pair of pants, it would absolutely be a pair of soft shells with some stretch.

[Micol]

See, we have totally different approaches here, which is awesome to hear. My weight doesn't fluctuate much (hasn't really changed since high school), and I have 4 pairs of ski pants/layering systems ranging from OR Ferrosi pants (for spring touring) to Trewth bibs. I realize now that I might be an anomaly on both those points. But yeah, if I wanted one pair of pants, it would absolutely be a pair of soft shells with some stretch.

I try to simplify everything as much as possible. Like with boots I’ve been running Deena fit ones in Alpine touring bindings , dynafits , and regular alpine bindings....I lived out of a small RV for four months this past winter And space was so valuable , there are so many things that you need on the road that you don’t want to purchase from bear spray to a PLb, to ABS airbag canister to Willie Nelson cd. Tools, jacks, camp chair,, etc......It jjust all takes up so much room and slides around if not secured. So I try to one quiver as much as I can, Gets tighter when you’re doing sled access stuff, I used those Dena fit one boots even riding the sled. However they are a challenge on a pow surfer LOL

[chaka]

I have an Antero 2+ that I use as a winter rain shell and main ski jacket at Whistler and the local Vancouver ski hills. I have never become wet or uncomfortable, even when it's raining at the base and a blizzard in the Alpine. The jacket is extremely well made, the fabric seems quite tough, and the big hood/face guard combo is awesome. The zippers are easy to use with gloves, and everything just works. Customer service is top notch, too.

thx Wicked_Sick! Is your Antero 2+ Gore Tex or Neoshell? And if Neoshell, is it the regular or LTE (light touring) version? Just trying to nail down which version suits your needs so well.

@MiCol - sorry if I missed this on your site, but is weather resistance about the same between the LTE and regular Antero 2+? thx