Originally Posted by
auvgeek
Who says the C&D is unstable at speed and also hard to handle in tight trees? Genuinely curious.
Originally Posted by
kwilder
I
There's an older review on blister reviews that describes them this way, as well as an old thread here. These are both 5+ years old, so I know the design of the ski may have changed. I guess what makes the Kartel 116 different than the Billy goat? I'm not looking for a 1 ski quiver. I use my Line's for days that aren't fresh
Believe the last CD they had was pre-RES, so aways back.
BG and K116 are super different - primarily in balance. Kartel 116 is more playful and neutral, BG wants to be skied a bit forward over your forebody and has far less tail.
BG more soft snow specific - it can handle to and from the lifts but Kartel 116 will carve a more complete turn.
Originally Posted by
jackattack
We really needed another Billy Goat thread?!
I took almost...2+ weeks off from this place after the last thread, mostly because I felt like I was this guy living in a live action BIlly Madison scene.
Originally Posted by
rob stokes
Just to be devils advocate....I didn’t think the BG’s floated very well. I am 190lbs, and skied the 184’s which may be too small I guess. Other pow skis I love are the 184 Katana and 190 lotus 120 so I think it’s more of a mount point thing than a length.
Build quality was awesome on the On3p’s, they are heavy as fuck (much more than stated weight on website) and damp and stable in soft chop. Really liked them in shallow chop, slush and crud....just not the deep. Couldn’t get the tips to float in deep wet pow at all.
I am of a very top heavy physique and drive the tips old school, so didn’t like Hoji’s either, maybe if you like more cantered mounts you will like the BG more.
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I am sure we've talked about this before, but as a reminder, how tall are you? Could just be too short. Second, balance on the BG is ideally driven over the forebody, not the tips. The concept of RES is predicated on width in the forebody of the skis, so you float but can keep the ski skinnier. If you over-lever that space, you lose the advantage of the RES from a float perspective. Hope that makes sense.
Balance wise, I believe Hoji is a bit more centered, but similar thing. If you overdrive the tips you can over level the ski. Something like a Wren 114 you can lean into much more.
Originally Posted by
Norseman
Absolutely too small for you. And they don't respond well to driving hard forward... neutral and balanced is their jam, as you noted.
Sorry, but I gotta rebut your review. Good to confirm these points tho.
Your claim on the weight sounds like bullshit... stated weight is accurate. Bamboo is heavy, no doubt... but they aren't misleading anyone.
He's giving accurate info on the weight. That said, should be noted that they were bought on proform and were a blem for weight (this specific pair of BGs has already been discussed at length in the ON3P thread). When I looked up at the time, it was the heaviest skis out of that run.
Most brands use proform/demos to clear out any non-major structural blems. We'll proform blems for weight, any base/sidewall/topsheet scratches that happen in manufacturing, any visual issues in the topsheet or base printing, etc, Basically, if it won't affect durability, it could be marked as such and sold at discount or end up in a demo fleet.
With weight, we track all core & ski weights and monitor both for things that fall outside our set range. Obviously, with a natural material in bamboo there is a range of weight variance we (and any other manufacturer) have to manage. With cores, we use it to scrape cores that are out of weight, and then if the finished ski also is outside weight range, it gets flagged and marked as a weight blem.
It is not super common to have a weight blem, but they happen enough it is something we track and was the case with this particular pair of 184cm BGs.
Seriously, this can’t turn into yet another ON3P thread....
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